richarde7927 Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Im hoping someone can help . I have converted my tt6 to a single all that work is done i fitted the new 850cc injectors and the emanage last week. I started off with ignitor input signal fault 1- 6 which after some reading was the emanage ultimate wanted the coil packs wiring in series but they have to be wired in firing order so that is now sorted . After sorting that we fired the car on sat morning and after 5 mins of running the engine flooded and the engine stop , it was flooded so bad the engine would not turn over so we messed with the cold start setting and see fired straight back up, so we got the car strapped to the dyno and started mapping on the low boost setting 0.80 bar all was going well till we got to 6400 rpm we got a misfire and no matter what we did we could not get rid of it , i even got a set of plugs and coil packs from a good running supra and it was still the same . Has anyone else had this problem and how did you fix it as its driving me mad and im out of ideas. Rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richarde7927 Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 Ill take it then no one has any ideas . Im really stuck with this people i could do with some help from someone that has one of the emanage ultimate units fitted to the j spec tt6. Rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Hi mate. what are your afr's at 6400 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richarde7927 Posted June 19, 2012 Author Share Posted June 19, 2012 Afr is holding a nice 11.5 from the second it comes on boost till the misfire . I think its dumping fuel in at 6400rpm and putting the spark out. If you keep yourtfoot in it will go through it . The afr goes a little richer due to the un burned fuel of the misfire i think i cannot see the afr got super rich because it goes in and out of the rich spot so fast the lamda cannot keep up. I have looked on the greddy wedsite and they are listing a adapter # 2 which is for stopping rich condictions on 6 cylinder engines so it looks like they know they have problems. Rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absz Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 yes you need to wire in the injector adaptor module on the supras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 You also could do with a proper stand alone ECU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absz Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 You also could do with a proper stand alone ECU. Nothing wrong with piggypacks:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richarde7927 Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 I agree there is no need to spend £1000's on a ecu. Ok ill get one on order and see if that sorts it. Rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraDan24 Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I agree there is no need to spend £1000's on a ecu. Rich. Say's the guy in the Technical section I'm only kidding, hope you get it sorted fella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) yes you need to wire in the injector adaptor module on the supras. The adapter module is not a requirement, it depends if you are seriously over fueling. It's not a requirement for everyone. I don't have one on mine, it's still in the box. http://www.greddy.com/products/electronics/e-manage-ultimate/ If you click on adapter No 2, it states this adapter prevents overly rich conditions on 6 cylinder engines. The problem could be sensor related, I would of thought you would run into problems at all RPM if you had a fueling issue and not just boost considering the AFR's are ok without boost. What makes you think the engine is dumping fuel at boost if the afr's don't change mate? Edited June 20, 2012 by Noz (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richarde7927 Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 I have had to remove loads of fuel and i mean loads on boost to get it to rev .when i started it would not rev over 4k as i was setting the fueling up and remove fuel it started to rev more and more till i hit 6400 rpm and i just cannot stop it doing it . The fueling is now 11.5 on boost just as it comes to the misfire i see at riching up to 10.9 then misfire keep my foot in and then its back to 11.5 i think the rich stop is coming in and out so fast the lamda cannot show me the fueling . The sell which the ecu is using on misfire if i pull loads of fuel out seems not to be helping. I have tried plugs coilpacks all the usual stuff Have you still got the adapter 2 ill buy it off you and cover over time and postage. Rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I have the injector hardness to cure the over fueling issue for 6 cylinder engines, i will double check its the correct adapter for you first, dont want to sell you something that won't help or solve any issues. If its the correct harness which Im sure it is, it may be an idea to put the fueling back in to how it was but Im sure you already thought of that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richarde7927 Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 Thank you for your help . Just let me know once you have had a look . The one i was looking at was inj adapter # 2 Rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakky Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I have had to remove loads of fuel and i mean loads on boost to get it to rev .when i started it would not rev over 4k as i was setting the fueling up and remove fuel it started to rev more and more till i hit 6400 rpm and i just cannot stop it doing it . The fueling is now 11.5 on boost just as it comes to the misfire i see at riching up to 10.9 then misfire keep my foot in and then its back to 11.5 i think the rich stop is coming in and out so fast the lamda cannot show me the fueling . The sell which the ecu is using on misfire if i pull loads of fuel out seems not to be helping. I have tried plugs coilpacks all the usual stuff Have you still got the adapter 2 ill buy it off you and cover over time and postage. Rich. What is your timing doing? don't retard too much at the 6500-7000 cell. Your fuelling is very difficult to tune at this rpm, as the wideband readings are not quick enuff - after all, where is your wideband sensor? half way down the exhaust.. What are your base injector scalings? original and after injectors? have you adjusted the Tp-in, the Throttle accel map? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 (edited) Can you zip up and attach your current map to this thread, so I can have a look? It could be non-map related, from an iffy jumper setting to a config parameter being wrong, or even a map with edits in that you didn't know about. Also, your AFR reading might be clipping at 10.9 as it can't read any richer than that. If you've gone from j-spec 440cc injectors then you'll be removing near 50% of the injector duty to run normally off boost, so it's no wonder you're taking a lot of fuel out. By the way, I thought the injector adapter was to stop rough running. I had that on mine, it idled and ran badly. Fitting the injector adapter (though I thought it was #3?) and it cleared right up. It certainly wasn't just for overfuelling at high revs... Edit - no it was #2 I used. Probably a good idea to get it installed, I don't think it'll run right without it. Edited June 25, 2012 by Ian C (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee P Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 You only need to fit the injector adaptor on the older units, the later ones had it built in. You check it by the serial number on their website Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richarde7927 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 What is your timing doing? don't retard too much at the 6500-7000 cell. Your fuelling is very difficult to tune at this rpm, as the wideband readings are not quick enuff - after all, where is your wideband sensor? half way down the exhaust.. What are your base injector scalings? original and after injectors? have you adjusted the Tp-in, the Throttle accel map? The lamda is right at the back of the turbo . The injectors are set from 440 cc to 850 cc on the scaling . I have set the voltage for the Tp so it reads 100% . I have also taken fuel from the accel map to stop the rich spot as you put your foot down . Rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richarde7927 Posted June 28, 2012 Author Share Posted June 28, 2012 Can you zip up and attach your current map to this thread, so I can have a look? It could be non-map related, from an iffy jumper setting to a config parameter being wrong, or even a map with edits in that you didn't know about. Also, your AFR reading might be clipping at 10.9 as it can't read any richer than that. If you've gone from j-spec 440cc injectors then you'll be removing near 50% of the injector duty to run normally off boost, so it's no wonder you're taking a lot of fuel out. By the way, I thought the injector adapter was to stop rough running. I had that on mine, it idled and ran badly. Fitting the injector adapter (though I thought it was #3?) and it cleared right up. It certainly wasn't just for overfuelling at high revs... Edit - no it was #2 I used. Probably a good idea to get it installed, I don't think it'll run right without it. Ok i have fitted the adapter loom 2 and had a good look through the settings on the e-manage I have done loads of reading at it seems all the problems with this unit come down to not being set up right which i thionk was my case to , I have set the anologe Input and output signel to pressure and set it to the engine code , and set the boost cut to 4 volts and caped so the e-manage can only see about 12 volts and there for no boost cut which on the face of it may have been the problem . Since all of these changes i have managed to get a full run to the limiter at a bar of boost with no problems so ill get on maping it at the weekend and ill let you know how it goes im hoping to have her ready for suprapod . Rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonkin Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 You only need to fit the injector adaptor on the older units, the later ones had it built in. You check it by the serial number on their website Was just about to say this, after our conversations with my emanage's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Good to know about the newer units not needing the adapter Sounds like a lot of basic config wasn't right to start with. There are a lot of specific settings to get right - alas I've not got my files here with me at the moment so I can't check them, but a search on here should produce the jumper settings and stuff. You can go a bit higher than 4v with the boost cut, but I don't recall how far exactly Gives you a bit more range on the stock MAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakky Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) ... set the boost cut to 4 volts and caped so the e-manage can only see about 12 volts and there for no boost cut which on the face of it may have been the problem . Since all of these changes i have managed to get a full run to the limiter at a bar of boost with no problems so ill get on maping it at the weekend and ill let you know how it goes im hoping to have her ready for suprapod . Rich. I see exactly the same on mine, that the boost cut needs to be lowered that some say - some say 4.1v, some 4.2v. In the logs, it appears to be due to the rapid flickering of the stock MAP sensor above 10psi - the trace is terrible. At high rpm, it's even worse due to inlet pressure pulses, so then boost cut earlier than expected. I appreciate and understand that there is a "filter" to avoid the Tp seeing the pressure fluctuations, however..... Also what extra pressure sensor are you using? I found copy sensors (non-Greddy) to be out by over 1psi. Don't forget to retard timing above the equiv of 4 volts cap. Have you calculated what PSI that is? Sounds quite low, maybe 10psi at a guess right now. Edited June 28, 2012 by Yakky (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaahari Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 (edited) Excact same broblem with my emu when installed it. Terrible missfire above 5500-6000rpm when boost >1bar. Definetly not boost cut because no check engine light and no head-in-windscreen effect I had to lower boost cut voltage from emu software, if i remember correctly, below 4volts. When reading logs, i got sudden 100% injector duty when it happens before emu logs go mental. Newer know what caused this, would like to know. got injector adaptor2 & greddy pressure sensor with emu. Edited June 29, 2012 by kaahari (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 The injector duty goes to 100% when the stock ECU detects and 'overboost' condition, i.e. 1.0bar of boost or above. Fuel cut comes in depending on the amount of boost over 1bar and how much time has passed, but before that as a safety measure, the ECU opens the taps to 100% to protect the engine. Found my stuff, I set it to 4.44v, that's about 0.98bar. Gives you maximum range of the stock MAP sensor while avoiding fuel cut and the 100% injector issue. 4.00v probably isn't a good idea as that'll cap the pressure sensor at 0.73bar! If that's the highest boost the stock ECU ever sees, it'll never send more than ~70% duty cycle to the injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakky Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 Ian, this doesn't explain why when "capped" at 4.2 volts, we still see boost cut, even 4.1 as mentioned. There is no voltage above 4.1 (say) in the logs sent to the ECU. The ECU is not seeing over 4.1 volts, unless the Emanage is not capping voltage correctly, or perhaps the stock ecu extrapolating values (it's only internal filtering on the flickery fluctuating signal) when it see closes to fuel cut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richarde7927 Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Still having problems with this ecu ,I have used the greedy pressure sensor and i did have the adapter 2 fitted the car has been mapped and made the sort of figures i wanted ,530 bhp at 1.4 bar and 578 at 1.6 bar .But i have a massave cold start and general starting issue . The car floods as soon as you turn the key to the point if you try and start the car 3 times it locks the engine , I have tried everything i can think of and i have ran out of ideas the only way to start the car is kill the fuel pump get it started and then reconnect the pump . At that point it will run untill you turn it off again , i have 850 cc injectors in ,with a welbro 400 pump. I have scaled them on the map and put in the lag times in , i have changed the coolent temp sender to the ecu incase it was that , i have removed the water temp signel from the emu ,i have removed the adapter 2 box as this was not helping , i have removed fuel from the box in the map when im cranking non of this has helped ,I have change the fuel pressure regulator to one with a gauge set at 38 psi ,changed the plugs just incase , I have tried a second set of coil packs again made on odds , I fast thinking its a problem with the EMU its self . This is madness as some days the car will start and others it will not . Cheers Rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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