The fastest spooling single turbos comparison chart (Street Set -ups)

[wallis]

Just thought I would share some new info on my set up from Ryans new map for a comparison as its an interesting topic at the moment to what's a fast street car set up.

 

Original info:

************ GT30 ********* GT35 ******T67DBB****

3000rpm....120bhp 200lb....112bhp 200lb....135bhp 235lb

3500rpm....180bhp 260lb....210bhp 308lb....185bhp 280lb

4000rpm....310bhp 405lb....385bhp 510lb....300bhp 400lb

4500rpm....410bhp 460lb....485bhp 560lb....500bhp 480lb (all reach peak torque 4600-4700rpm approx)

5000rpm....480bhp 505lb....530bhp 560lb....560bhp 585lb

5500rpm....500bhp 475lb....555bhp 540lb....595bhp 560lb

6000rpm....xxxbhp xxxlb....575bhp 504lb....608bhp 530lb

New info based on My GT30R running 1.2 bar 474.3bhp and 490ftlb.

************ GT30 ********* GT35 ******T67DBB****

2600rpm....124bhp 238lb xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

3000rpm....148bhp 252lb....112bhp 200lb....135bhp 235lb

3500rpm....252bhp 392lb....210bhp 308lb....185bhp 280lb

4000rpm....378bhp 490lb....385bhp 510lb....300bhp 400lb

4500rpm....420bhp 490lb....485bhp 560lb....500bhp 480lb (all reach peak torque 4600-4700rpm approx)

5000rpm....448bhp 476lb....530bhp 560lb....560bhp 585lb

5500rpm....462bhp 448lb....555bhp 540lb....595bhp 560lb

6000rpm....474bhp 400lb....575bhp 504lb....608bhp 530lb

 

Now if I change a section of my exhaust and had water injection to keep the EGT's down, the boost could be increased and things would get really interesting, taking the car into the 550-600bhp mark and with even more torque!

Ryan managed a run over 500bhp with my set up but was concerned about EGT'S so mapped it down to safe levels with the current set up and said the car drove like stock and spooled instantly!!

[JamieP]

Ryan managed a run over 500bhp with my set up but was concerned about EGT'S so mapped it down to safe levels with the current set up and said the car drove like stock and spooled instantly!!

 

 

Thats a lot of work/money spent on your car to get whats about 40bhp over a decent bpu car, massive waste of time imo, put a bigger turbo on it and make the most of the supporting mods.

[wallis]

Ok Jaime I see your point from the bhp aspect but my point is if u look at the figures mainly torque all I'm saying is the gt30 is looking good!!

I made a point my spooling was starting from 2000rpm the other day hitting full boost almost straight away and I'm still sticking by it ;-)

I will put the dyno up tomorrow when I'm home not on the I phone.

With a few modifications at a very low cost my set up is on top for a very quick street set u, prob the fastest I've seen, that's all I'm saying mate!

[JamieP]

I agree it does spool well, it dont look like you are making full boost anywhere near 2000rpm though, put a log from the ecu to prove it and i will take back that statement.

 

Looking at the numbers above, between 2600 and 3000rpm you only make about 20 odd bhp, thats not a car on full boost, 3000rpm + and it starts to pick up it legs.

 

Very quick spooling is very much over rated imo, when you are going for it the car is always in the high rev range between gear changes, ive been though many setups and imo the 5000 rpm plus numbers is what makes for a fast car, a big rpm range helps an all, even with my "laggy" 76mm i still have a fairly large area of the rev range where my car is on full boost.

 

Quick spooling is nice if you're a bit of a grandad and like pottering around in the low rpm range;)

[chazuk]

I am not to sure why people go on about super fast spooling "street driveable" it must come to that point when it spools to fast and the traction suffers, my setup is old now single gate manifold non batmowheel turbo and I dont find it laggy at all and I found my tt quite laggy, the torque was coming in so early on mine ryan set the ebc to hold it back abit until it reaches 1.2bar just to make it that much more driveable as JP said youve got all the bits its a simple turbo change.

Edited June 15, 2012 by chazuk (see edit history)

[sdistc]

Fast spooling is good if you can't exceed motorway-ish speeds (for example, on a tight and twisting racetrack), but they run out of legs past there. Not sure I'm a big fan of early power at the expense of mid-range and top end.

[wallis]

Again my point was about a fast spooling street car, I don't disagree with anyone in regards to mid- high range power, but if I could up the boost and get a few more hp, this is a great street set up!

[sdistc]

Again my point was about a fast spooling street car, I don't disagree with anyone in regards to mid- high range power, but if I could up the boost and get a few more hp, this is a great street set up!

 

Oh, I don't think anyone's missed your point.. just that I, for one, think that the fast spool is much less important than torque curves and mid-range. And a small turbo that gets great spool will be underturbined for a 2J, IMO.

[wallis]

On the contray, quick spooling is important for a fast street car!

I will be finished paying whilst your still counting your change if u get my drift ;-)

In an inline race I would for example rocket ahead only for a larger turbo to catch me up further down the line, I don't know many 200mph roads where I live that I could get that fast down so it doesn't personally interest me!

It all boils down to the perception of this chase for masive bhp, torque is the only thing I'm interested in and that's what ultimately makes a great street car in my opinion.

[JamieP]

On the contray, quick spooling is important for a fast street car!

I will be finished paying whilst your still counting your change if u get my drift ;-)

In an inline race I would for example rocket ahead only for a larger turbo to catch me up further down the line, I don't know many 200mph roads where I live that I could get that fast down so it doesn't personally interest me!

It all boils down to the perception of this chase for masive bhp, torque is the only thing I'm interested in and that's what ultimately makes a great street car in my opinion.

 

In a straight line race against a more powerful supra you would not stand a chance, the only place where you may have a chance is if it was a roll race and the guy with the bigger turbo is in the wrong gear, i can 100% tell you that on the street your car wont be faster than mine or any other supra with more power in any situation that matters.

Edited June 15, 2012 by JamieP (see edit history)

[tooquicktostop]

BPU in TTC gives me 420 bhp and 450 ftlb and I only went to 1.2 bar, it's a very fast spool on the steel twins, when I go single I want a rapid spool but would want at least another 100 bhp and 50 ftlb or there is no point IMO, there are members in BPU cars making very similar numbers to yours

[Swampy442]

Looking at those figures I'm more than happy with my T67dbb.

[wallis]

In a straight line race against a more powerful supra you would not stand a chance, the only place where you may have a chance is if it was a roll race and the guy with the bigger turbo is in the wrong gear, i can 100% tell you that on the street your car wont be faster than mine or any other supra with more power in any situation that matters.

 

Jaime theres hardly any other supra in the Country which would even come close to your set up ;-)

I'm just comparing to the above comparisons as this seems to be the short list to the best street set up, im not talking about 700-1000bhp cars.......different kettle of fish completely as u know!

 

BPU in TTC gives me 420 bhp and 450 ftlb and I only went to 1.2 bar, it's a very fast spool on the steel twins, when I go single I want a rapid spool but would want at least another 100 bhp and 50 ftlb or there is no point IMO, there are members in BPU cars making very similar numbers to yours

Again im just using information from that pacific dyno run for the comparison, my car is running slightly higher, and has been running higher for over a year, as I've said with the modification of the exhaust it would easily and safely achieve well over 500+bhp, with the water inj with more boost were looking at closer to 600bhp from a tiny GT30, pretty impressive going if u ask me!

 

A simple question I would like to ask is if a 558bhp car producing 500ftlb of torque was compared to a car making 477bhp and 500ftlb of torque which would be faster, or would they be the same??

My answer is the same, but any input and thoughts would be apprieciated guys, cheers ;-)

 

Oh, I don't think anyone's missed your point.. just that I, for one, think that the fast spool is much less important than torque curves and mid-range. And a small turbo that gets great spool will be underturbined for a 2J, IMO.

 

This is exactly what im saying that torque curves are important, but fast spooling gives low down torque where other set ups lack in the figures shown above with the GT35 and T67 comparisons.

[imi]

Quick spooling is nice if you're a bit of a grandad and like pottering around in the low rpm range;)

 

I have no choice but to drive like that in London .... I like quick spooling Turbos

 

I do see Jamie's point though - for an extra 40bhp it is hardly worth it - IMO.

Edited June 15, 2012 by imi (see edit history)

[wallis]

Will everyone stop going on about this 40hp please......lol

It's currently over 200 bhp more than what it was when i first got it as stock over 8 years ago, thank you !!!!

[SteveR]

When will the data be added to Ryan's website and dyno graph comparison tool so we can all see something meaningful?

Not much point having a low down spool if it ends up making bugger all power/torque, sorry.

My pug 406 TD spools really well... great.

My Supra spools well AND makes good power.

Edited June 15, 2012 by SteveR (see edit history)

[wallis]

When will the data be added to Ryan's website and dyno graph comparison tool so we can all see something meaningful?

Not much point having a low down spool if it ends up making bugger all power/torque, sorry.

My pug 406 TD spools really well... great.

My Supra spools well AND makes good power.

 

Is anybody reading the contents of this post or just what jaime writes?

[sdistc]

Again im just using information from that pacific dyno run for the comparison, my car is running slightly higher, and has been running higher for over a year, as I've said with the modification of the exhaust it would easily and safely achieve well over 500+bhp, with the water inj with more boost were looking at closer to 600bhp from a tiny GT30, pretty impressive going if u ask me!

 

A simple question I would like to ask is if a 558bhp car producing 500ftlb of torque was compared to a car making 477bhp and 500ftlb of torque which would be faster, or would they be the same??

My answer is the same, but any input and thoughts would be apprieciated guys, cheers ;-)

 

This is exactly what im saying that torque curves are important, but fast spooling gives low down torque where other set ups lack in the figures shown above with the GT35 and T67 comparisons.

 

It doesn't seem particularly accurate to blindly compare your dyno results with the on-paper results for other turbos. I think you're getting caught up in this idea of "spooling" rather than "time to torque".

I agree with Steve's contention that mildly better low-down torque doesn't always compensate for a big loss of torque from 4k rpm to redline - which is where you'll spend the majority of time if driving hard. It will only be noticeable, as I said earlier, on tight and twisty tracks where you will spend more time in low gears.

[wallis]

These are not on paper results mate, the GT35 set up is Caseys data and the T67 is DanDans set up data, All I think with Ryan Gs maps, all real set ups with variouse a/r sizes and cams etc, members own data from there own fast rd car set ups!

so I agree and for a min let's just forget about my actual results in this comparison after 4k rpm point, as I have said EGT's were getting higher due to my exhaust issue, now if let's say I changed my exhaust so it flowed more and the EGT's dropped and the boost was raised to 1.4 and I hit 548bhp and 560ftlb of torque which gave me far better mid-high range levels, this would be great results for the GT30 for instant spool and a great torque/power curve in comparison to the other set ups results.

That's my original point that everyone's missing here ;-) !!!

[JamieP]

so I agree and for a min let's just forget about my actual results in this comparison after 4k rpm point, as I have said EGT's were getting higher due to my exhaust issue, now if let's say I changed my exhaust so it flowed more and the EGT's dropped and the boost was raised to 1.4 and I hit 548bhp and 560ftlb of torque which gave me far better mid-high range levels, this would be great results for the GT30 for instant spool and a great torque/power curve in comparison to the other set ups results.

That's my original point that everyone's missing here ;-) !!!

 

People prefer facts than speculation, and the fact is you made 470 Bhp at the flywheel.

[scoooby slayer]

Just thought I would share some new info on my set up from Ryans new map for a comparison as its an interesting topic at the moment to what's a fast street car set up.

 

Original info:

************ GT30 ********* GT35 ******T67DBB****

3000rpm....120bhp 200lb....112bhp 200lb....135bhp 235lb

3500rpm....180bhp 260lb....210bhp 308lb....185bhp 280lb

4000rpm....310bhp 405lb....385bhp 510lb....300bhp 400lb

4500rpm....410bhp 460lb....485bhp 560lb....500bhp 480lb (all reach peak torque 4600-4700rpm approx)

5000rpm....480bhp 505lb....530bhp 560lb....560bhp 585lb

5500rpm....500bhp 475lb....555bhp 540lb....595bhp 560lb

6000rpm....xxxbhp xxxlb....575bhp 504lb....608bhp 530lb

New info based on My GT30R running 1.2 bar 474.3bhp and 490ftlb.

************ GT30 ********* GT35 ******T67DBB****

2600rpm....124bhp 238lb xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

3000rpm....148bhp 252lb....112bhp 200lb....135bhp 235lb

3500rpm....252bhp 392lb....210bhp 308lb....185bhp 280lb

4000rpm....378bhp 490lb....385bhp 510lb....300bhp 400lb

4500rpm....420bhp 490lb....485bhp 560lb....500bhp 480lb (all reach peak torque 4600-4700rpm approx)

5000rpm....448bhp 476lb....530bhp 560lb....560bhp 585lb

5500rpm....462bhp 448lb....555bhp 540lb....595bhp 560lb

6000rpm....474bhp 400lb....575bhp 504lb....608bhp 530lb

 

Now if I change a section of my exhaust and had water injection to keep the EGT's down, the boost could be increased and things would get really interesting, taking the car into the 550-600bhp mark and with even more torque!

Ryan managed a run over 500bhp with my set up but was concerned about EGT'S so mapped it down to safe levels with the current set up and said the car drove like stock and spooled instantly!!

 

il add to this as comparison addmitadly a 3.4 but on a hks t51r spl at 2 bar

 

3.4 t51r spl bb hub figures from tdi dyno

 

2500rpm....100bhp 220 lbft

3000rpm....138bhp 239 lbft

3500rpm....176bhp 261 lbft

4000rpm....248bhp 322 lbft

4500rpm....405bhp 467lbft

5000rpm....602bhp 624lbft

5500rpm....666bhp 627lbft

6000rpm....706bhp 609lbft

6500rpm....727bhp 581lbft

7000rpm....758bhp 558lbft

 

i dont make proper boost til 4000 rpm, then full boost by 5000 rpm, in my opinion the gt30 looks like a very throttled back engine.

any turboed engine you have to drive it in the curve, if you want all round lazy power everywhere ur best of with a big na engine imo.

[sdistc]

These are not on paper results mate, the GT35 set up is Caseys data and the T67 is DanDans set up data, All I think with Ryan Gs maps, all real set ups with variouse a/r sizes and cams etc, members own data from there own fast rd car set ups

 

My apologies - I didn't realise the other data was real-world. Were these all on SRR (or a common dyno)? Because if not, it calls into question the accuracy of comparison.

[Scooter]

Is anybody reading the contents of this post or just what jaime writes?

 

I'd of thought this type of setup with an auto is far more important for all round drivability, I'm guessing it'll feel more responsive in general even if that is pottering about, more supercharger feel than old T78? I appreciate it may not be that much more than bpu but then above that you are moving into major traction issues anyway arent you?

 

If you look at some stats (1/4 mile) then loads of people with manual singles have wasted there money compared to TRD's bpu'd auto.

 

I think loads on here never look beyond peak bhp, bpu+, small single, large single does it really make much difference?

[wallis]

My apologies - I didn't realise the other data was real-world. Were these all on SRR (or a common dyno)? Because if not, it calls into question the accuracy of comparison.

 

They were all done on a dyno dynamics, but my car was done at Gagare 786, so it's only a guide ;-)

 

I'd of thought this type of setup with an auto is far more important for all round drivability, I'm guessing it'll feel more responsive in general even if that is pottering about, more supercharger feel than old T78? I appreciate it may not be that much more than bpu but then above that you are moving into major traction issues anyway arent you?

 

If you look at some stats (1/4 mile) then loads of people with manual singles have wasted there money compared to TRD's bpu'd auto.

 

I think loads on here never look beyond peak bhp, bpu+, small single, large single does it really make much difference?

 

Finally someones read the post ;-)

And I think understands what I'm trying to get at!

I totally agree with what your saying as well, to most people it's just about bhp figures and nothing else is important!

[JamieP]

I'd of thought this type of setup with an auto is far more important for all round drivability, I'm guessing it'll feel more responsive in general even if that is pottering about, more supercharger feel than old T78? I appreciate it may not be that much more than bpu but then above that you are moving into major traction issues anyway arent you?

 

If you look at some stats (1/4 mile) then loads of people with manual singles have wasted there money compared to TRD's bpu'd auto.

 

I think loads on here never look beyond peak bhp, bpu+, small single, large single does it really make much difference?

 

With decent tyres traction dont start to become an issue till 800ish bhp imo.

 

He his talking about street set ups, not drag racing. auto will always be better at drag racing than manual, TRD's car did well for bpu and it was very much setup for drag racing.

 

Yes it does make that much difference, ive had most setups and the more power you have the faster the car is, fact.

 

 

 

I totally agree with what your saying as well, to most people it's just about bhp figures and nothing else is important!

 

When you was building the car I remember you saying you wanted 500rwhp from this setup, now you have made only what i guess is about 400rwhp? the bhp is all of a sudden not important to you anymore.

 

For the most bhp and ftlb go hand in hand, if you want a fast car you need lots of both.

 

I may be way off the mark here but im going to speak my mind, i feel this thread was only started by yourself to try and help the sale of your car and justify the low bhp it made, again i doubt i would have posted anything if it was not for the fact you flew off the handle in the other thread telling Ian to shove his 2 pence up his arse.

Edited June 16, 2012 by JamieP (see edit history)