Going to build up my spare TT engine - Advice needed

[ManwithSupra]

I have a good condition TT engine from my old car (which I am breaking) and have been debating either to sell it or build it up for use in my Track car.

 

The engine in my Track car has a stock bottom but a Swindon engines race spec head on it running 600bhp.

 

I was thinking of building my spare up with lighter stronger internals and having the head done to the same spec of the one I have already, however looking to bring the safe rev limit up to around 8k..

 

I have been looking about on the net and on here for information but there seems to be a minefield of endless manufactures all stating that their kit is the best.

 

From the research I have done already I am pretty certain that I want to steer clear of BC kit.

 

So I am really looking for guidance on what kit to purchase for the bottom end.

I have in my mind Jun Pistons (Cosworth) and Carrillo H beam rods, however I am stumped at the Crank.

 

I know i am not running huge power but would the stock crank be ok for 8k?

I know that balancing the stock crank would be ideal if it is ok to be used but would it be worth getting a lighter weight, already balanced crank?

Edited May 24, 2012 by ManwithSupra (see edit history)

[DARETT]

Stock crank should be fine, however if you want to bullet proof it for x amount of power you can get a Titan billet crank.

The piston/rod combo you have in mind sounds perfect. The Mahle pistons that Paul sells are also very good

[ManwithSupra]

Stock crank should be fine, however if you want to bullet proof it for x amount of power you can get a Titan billet crank.

The piston/rod combo you have in mind sounds perfect. The Mahle pistons that Paul sells are also very good

 

Are there any benefits over the Mahle pistons to the Cosworth (Jun) ones?

The Mahle pistons are a fair whack cheaper then the Cosworth, does anyone know what are the differences are between the two?

[ManwithSupra]

Actually I have just read that Mahle own Cosworth (who make the Jun kit).

http://www.mahle.com/mi/home.nsf/CurrentBaseLink/W26MPHFT008STULEN

 

I wonder what the deal is with the two sets of pistons in terms of design differences now they have been the same company since 2005.

 

Edit..

 

And now to add Cosworth now have their own set as well...

http://www.cosworth.com/products/performance-parts/forged-pistons/toyota/

 

So does this mean now that one company makes 3 different sets for the 2JZ-GTE??

 

Wonder if Chris wilson will pop on this thread

Edited May 22, 2012 by ManwithSupra (see edit history)

[ManwithSupra]

Is anyone running the Mahle pistons?

[abtin90]

Slightly off topic but are you planning to push for more power once the spare engine is built?

[Ricky49]

Is anyone running the Mahle pistons?

 

Jamie P does with the BC rods and Lee P now stocks these on the shelf and also rates them highly.

[Chris Wilson]

Farndon will probably do a good price on a crank here in the UK.

[ManwithSupra]

Slightly off topic but are you planning to push for more power once the spare engine is built?

 

Maybe but not more then 700-750bhp.

[ManwithSupra]

Farndon will probably do a good price on a crank here in the UK.

 

 

Cheers chris, will give them a shout to see what they can do

Is that something you would recommend over the stock crank if bringing the rev limt to 8k?

[Chris Wilson]

If it's for track usage, yes. Whilst people rightly say the stock crank is strong, it's not a proper race crank, and they can flex and show odd bearing wear patterns (always a sign of crank or block flex). I run my RB26 Skyline engine at less than 600 BHP but have a Farndon crank in it, as it's peace of mind and makes it bullet proof. I can get a good Chinese crank, and have used them in a couple of strong RB26 engines. I checked both for hardness, straightness, ovality and balance, and they were spot on, and have given no trouble. I can get a price on a 2JZ crank, but I myself preferred to pay a good bit more for one made down the road of certified material. Farndon are probably struggling, hell Lola and Lola Composites have just gone under! Maybe you could blag a good discount? They make really nice cranks and I have never had any issues with their cranks, rods, cam followers or flywheels in 35 years. RUN A STOCK DAMPER!!!!

Edited May 23, 2012 by Chris Wilson (see edit history)

[ManwithSupra]

If it's for track usage, yes. Whilst people rightly say the stock crank is strong, it's not a proper race crank, and they can flex and show odd bearing wear patterns (always a sign of crank or block flex). I run my RB26 Skyline engine at less than 600 BHP but have a farndon crank in it, as it's peace of mind and makes it bullet proof. I can get a good Chines crank, and have used them in a couple of strong RB26 engines. I checked both for hardness, straightness, ovality and balance, and they were spot on, and have given no trouble. I can get a price on a 2JZ crank, but I myself preferred to pay a good bit more for one made down the road of certified material. Farndon are probably struggling, hell Lola and Lola Composites have just gone under! Maybe you could blag a good discount? They make really nice cranks and I have never had any issues with their cranks, rods, cam followers or flywheels in 35 years. RUN A STOCK DAMPER!!!!

 

Really useful info chris and exactly the sort answer I was looking for with regard to the crank - cheers

I have sent an email to them to see what they can do to get the ball rolling, is it worth getting the new crank to be knife edged and cross drilled?

I suspect it would be worth getting the crank Knife edged as the car runs a wet sump.

[ManwithSupra]

Ok got some quotes through

 

I have a choice of materials to choose from, EN40B and S132.

I am assuming that S132 would be better as its more expensive, however could I ask why its more expensive.

What is the difference between the two?

 

Sorry for all the questions but I like to learn.. and not just in general, but James May styleee

Edited May 24, 2012 by ManwithSupra (see edit history)

[Chris Wilson]

EN40B is fine, the S132 is a US spec vacuum re-melted alloy with very low impurities, it's OTT for what you are looking for, it'll be quite a lot dearer for no real benefit. You'd use it for an ultra lightweight race crank that gets binned after X hours, with someone else footing the bills

[ManwithSupra]

EN40B is fine, the S132 is a US spec vacuum re-melted alloy with very low impurities, it's OTT for what you are looking for, it'll be quite a lot dearer for no real benefit. You'd use it for an ultra lightweight race crank that gets binned after X hours, with someone else footing the bills

 

Hi Chris, thanks for this.

The EN40B is pretty well priced, I will be getting the Crank Knife edged for sure, although I am unsure about cross drilling, will this ultimately weaken the crank? or will its benefits out way the risk (if there is any).

 

Now to haggle

[Chris Wilson]

I wouldn't cross drill it, the Supra doesn't have any bottom end lubrication issues and cross drilling may push the pump's flow capacity to the limit, and, as far as I know, there are no higher flow pumps made, unlike for the RB26 engine. You only need it for engine's with poor oil distribution along the crank, or for those that rev so high (10,000 plus) they centrifuge the oil away from places it needs to get to. Knife edging is fine, but again, you won't be turning enough revs to really need it.

[ManwithSupra]

I wouldn't cross drill it, the Supra doesn't have any bottom end lubrication issues and cross drilling may push the pump's flow capacity to the limit, and, as far as I know, there are no higher flow pumps made, unlike for the RB26 engine. You only need it for engine's with poor oil distribution along the crank, or for those that rev so high (10,000 plus) they centrifuge the oil away from places it needs to get to. Knife edging is fine, but again, you won't be turning enough revs to really need it.

 

Ok cool, cheers chris you have been a lot of help on this.

The Quote I got back for the EN40B crank was pretty good so I think I will go for that one

 

I am sure that I will need to ask more questions as I go so cheers so far for everyones help.

[Chris Wilson]

Ask them for a price on some rods if they are short of work, theyt may do you a good package price. If you are having a custom crank done then you COULD consider a stroker crank and custom rods.

[ManwithSupra]

Ask them for a price on some rods if they are short of work, theyt may do you a good package price. If you are having a custom crank done then you COULD consider a stroker crank and custom rods.

 

What would be the benefit of having a Stroker Crank?

I want to keep engine response as good as it is currently.

 

I can see the benefit of matched rods with the crank.

[Chris Wilson]

Adding capacity will always increase response, you will have to keep the revs down witha stroker crank as the bore / stroke ratio is getting away from "good", but more air flow will spool turbo "X" faster than less air flow. I was just thinking that a stroker probably won't be any / much dearer than a stock stroke crank. You will need custom rods and maybe custom pistons though, but it's trivial getting pistons and rods made these days, I do it all the time.

[ManwithSupra]

I am just thinking is it going to be one of those things I wish I did... if I don’t decide to run a stroker crank.

If it was you and you were ripping down the engine would stroking it be a no brainer?

 

I like the idea of extended legs (higher RPMs) but if the spool up is faster then I will have the benefit at lower RPM's

[Chris Wilson]

It needs some consideration, depends what the car is to be used for. you will need special rods and pistons with a different pin height. Are you comfortable with speccing that sort of thing? farndon can sort the crank, YOU need to tell them rod legths, and to tell the piston makers about pin heights and CR ratios etcetera. If you want to keep it simple keep the stock stroke, if you don't mind the maths and a bespoke setup, a stroker will spool faster and there's no substitute for cubic inches in a road car engine. I have just sold my Bonner V6 engine to Oz for desert racing, now at 100 mm bore size AND a hefty stroke THAT was a torque monster. But not a revver.

[Nodalmighty]

I've never looked at the Supra bottom end. I bet you can make a pretty sturdy one without spending large if you are prepared to mix, match and machine. I did a 3vz-fe with 2AZ-FE 89mm forged pistons and 300zx eagle rods and a custom offset grind on the crank. The pistons needed 2mm of the top but with a -21cc bowl they had plenty of scope and squish clearance was more import than a super low CR.

 

Lyndon.