Kirk Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 LOL... well how do you kno if you have not used them your self,if they are not good or not?? bandwagon?? Clearly you didn't read my response to you numb nut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I didn't get fade on the 'Ring with OEM discs, some good fluid and a set of decent pads. Sure, they're groved so might get rid of a bit of heat but I'd rather trust Toyota's disc build quality and improve the braking through pad compound and fluid quality. Your pads last longer that way. Just my 2p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supra N_A Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Clearly you didn't read my response to you numb nut if you look I edited on what I said... since I read it again i thought you were saying N/A to me since my user name is that... never mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 To slow of an edit No harm done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_p Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 No NA but what difference does that make exactly? Really?? Well it is kind of obvious, you find yourself hitting MUCH higher speeds when you come down hard on the brakes. Then to explain how grooved disks work in easy terms, they effectively push out the hot air under braking down the course of the grooves, so you find that it will take longer to get the disks up to the same temperature, which 'hey presto' means you get more braking time before you get brake fade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_p Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I didn't get fade on the 'Ring with OEM discs, some good fluid and a set of decent pads. Sure, they're groved so might get rid of a bit of heat but I'd rather trust Toyota's disc build quality and improve the braking through pad compound and fluid quality. Your pads last longer that way. Just my 2p I'm guessing that was on UK spec brakes though, these guy's are talking about j-Specs I believe but I found that brake fade was worst on tracks with shorter straights. Never been on the Nurburgring so can't comment on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I'm guessing that was on UK spec brakes though, these guy's are talking about j-Specs I believe but I found that brake fade was worst on tracks with shorter straights. Never been on the Nurburgring so can't comment on that. Yep, you're right. A UK brake upgrade is a much better bet. The size of the discs and calipers will make a much bigger difference to braking performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Then to explain how grooved disks work in easy terms, they effectively push out the hot air under braking down the course of the grooves, so you find that it will take longer to get the disks up to the same temperature, which 'hey presto' means you get more braking time before you get brake fade. Really? Your trying to school me on how grooved brakes work? Im more than aware of how these 'uprated' discs work. Having grooved discs will probably give you a little better bite BUT they won't make such a huge significant difference in brake temperatures. Think you will find that the pads make all of the difference when it comes to fade but again you already know that right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_p Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Really? Your trying to school me on how grooved brakes work? Im more than aware of how these 'uprated' discs work. Having grooved discs will probably give you a little better bite BUT they won't make such a huge significant difference in brake temperatures. Think you will find that the pads make all of the difference when it comes to fade but again you already know that right? Well judging by the fact that you said the grooved disks don't work aswell as as the standard vented disks, then yes, I felt I needed to tell you. But you have just contradicted yourself and said they will give you better bite (this is due to the process of the grooves 'cleaning' the face of the pads ) and they will lower temps(although not significantly but I never said they made significant changes to temps) and yes I know pads make the bigger difference, but this thread isn't about pads, it's about the disks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_p Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Yep, you're right. A UK brake upgrade is a much better bet. The size of the discs and calipers will make a much bigger difference to braking performance. Without a doubt, can't wait to get my bigger brakes fitted to the Aero, just waiting for my braided brake lines to show up so I can get started . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Without a doubt, can't wait to get my bigger brakes fitted to the Aero, just waiting for my braided brake lines to show up so I can get started . I always found it surprising how much difference braided lines make too. Definitely a good move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_p Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 I always found it surprising how much difference braided lines make too. Definitely a good move. Out of interest, what brake fluid did you find best on the UK's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Out of interest, what brake fluid did you find best on the UK's? Erm I think I had Motul DOT 5.1. Can't remember now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 but I never said they made significant changes to temps Hmmm really? If your using the car hard then you will find that the brakes don't last long before you get fade. Yet here you said you will get brake fade after some hard use and guess what brake fade is down to... Care to ask the audience ? Oh yes that's right TEMPERATURE. So if these grooved discs are so much better than OEM then why aren't we all outside carving as many grooves into our brakes as possible? Surely each groove equates to half a degree of temperature loss so more the better right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_p Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 Hmmm really? Yet here you said you will get brake fade after some hard use and guess what brake fade is down to... Care to ask the audience ? Oh yes that's right TEMPERATURE. So if these grooved discs are so much better than OEM then why aren't we all outside carving as many grooves into our brakes as possible? Surely each groove equates to half a degree of temperature loss so more the better right? FFS this is getting rediculous, in the most simplest statement I can give: I find that that the brakes last longer before I get brake fade with grooved disks. If you actually read what I say, I say that I get brake fade much faster with stock J-specs than I do with uprated grooved disks, it's not a significant amount of lowered temps that I don't get brake fade but it lasts longer before it happens. I can't put it any clearer than that, take from it what you will but I can't be bothered with this pointless back and forth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robzki Posted February 20, 2012 Share Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) Id like to see where people have said 'I need 3G discs cause OEM aren't good enough' If you look back to post #13 of this very thread I think I covered this But that said please don't include me in any heated discussion about the pros and cons of oem or 'cheap' aftermarket as I'm happy with the 'cheap' 3gs but don't doubt that the oems are great too R. Edit: I can however always be drawn into an discussion over Jspec vs Uk for some reason people are happy to put on £600 worth of 15+yr old calipers and discs and tell everyone how great they are, and fade is non existent because thats what they have read on here. They never do track days so will they ever notice a difference? I'd rather have newly refurbed jspecs with new seals and pistons, braided lines and new 5.1 fluid over s/h dubious quality calipers. Going single? jeez better get some uk's fitted as slowing down from 70mph on the sliproad is much harder when you have more power. I must be easily confused by the mentality of some. Edited February 20, 2012 by Robzki (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
narbar Posted February 21, 2012 Author Share Posted February 21, 2012 Wow nice debate going on! Ive just brought oem disks for 230 from toyota and cw pads as well as motul 5.1 fluid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robzki Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Wow nice debate going on! Ive just brought oem disks for 230 from toyota and cw pads as well as motul 5.1 fluid congrats m8, all good choices Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 A much needed upgrade you say? Id like to see where people have said 'I need 3G discs cause OEM aren't good enough' Most people warp stock disc's so easily cause they don't allow them to cool off properly after abuse. Definetly not, the 3G's have been proven by numerous amounts of members to be a much needed upgrade over stock, I personally haven't heard anyone say that they thought stock disks performed better. I cracked my 3G front discs at the 'ring. Stock discs with upgraded pads are all that's needed IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) FFS this is getting rediculous, in the most simplest statement I can give: I find that that the brakes last longer before I get brake fade with grooved disks. If you actually read what I say, I say that I get brake fade much faster with stock J-specs than I do with uprated grooved disks, it's not a significant amount of lowered temps that I don't get brake fade but it lasts longer before it happens. I can't put it any clearer than that, take from it what you will but I can't be bothered with this pointless back and forth. And I stated I found OEM were best for me and never had any issues. If you wasn't such an arrogant bastard in your replies I would of left it alone simples. Anyway I refuse to waste anymore of my time with someone who gets there education on cars from google. Apologies to the OP. My opinion remains the same OEM discs are far better and more durable if you treat them right. Edited February 21, 2012 by Kirk (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) And I stated I found OEM were best for me and never had any issues. If you wasn't such an arrogant bastard in your replies I would of left it alone simples. Anyway I refuse to waste anymore of my time with someone who gets there education on cars from google. Apologies to the OP. My opinion remains the same OEM discs are far better and more durable if you treat them right. Your opinion is based on bias and ignorance towards the 3Gs though Martin, reading every one of your replies on here you are putting forward arguments as to how OEM discs are almost as good as discs with grooves in them (which not only reduces heat a bit by allowing the gas to be released through them, it also reduces the heat in the pad by taking the glaze off of the pad. Combined this makes a fair bit of difference when really going for it corner after corner) rather than actually putting any argument forward as to why 3Gs are rubbish and OEM are great. Sure, a few 3Gs have been warped/cracked in the past, I would bet that the cracked discs are the ones with the holes in them (I would never recommend those) and the warped ones will be down to not heating the brakes up properly and slowing down from 140 on a motorway (IMO, not accusing anyone). Which, strangely enough, is exactly the same reasons that people have hassle with OEM discs. I haven't read one reply where you base your opinion on experience of both. You say you briefly drove a car with 3G discs? Which car? How good were the pads? Were the calipers in good condition? I have owned both, I owned stock with stock pads for 1 year then moved over to stock with CW pads for a few months (I didn't notice huge differences with breaking but fade was a fair bit less) I then went to 3G with the CW pads and noticed a massive difference with fade (most noteably when I slammed the anchors on just over, erm, 130kph, on the motorway to avoid a fox), cold they performed WAY better. There's a snobbery in your replies, an OEM snobbery which is rife on this forum (I'm sure you will agree), hence why I think Marc was getting a little bit heated in his replies. Toyota spend blah blah millions on development etc, when most of that money is actually spent trying to develop cost effective means of producing a "good enough" product. Anyone who thinks otherwise is blatantly naive. I suppose they tested millions of components before fitting the ultimate stereo and speaker system too? No, they fitted what was good enough at the best cost effective rate. If it was any different every car would have 4pots on right from the factory, but that wouldn't have made as much money. OEM discs are thrown out 10 a penny, the markup on them is absolutely ridiculous (as is the 3G discs no doubt) as that's how people make money. Edited February 21, 2012 by Scott (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrosixfour Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 I like tea breaks but I could never drink 4 pots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethr Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 (edited) This is not a contribution to the "discussion", but may be useful info ... eBay -- GENUINE TOYOTA SUPRA TURBO 93-96 FRONT BRAKE DISC R/H or L/H -- £57.46/disc delivered GENUINE TOYOTA SUPRA TURBO 1993-1996 REAR BRAKE DISCS -- £118.66/pair delivered Edited February 21, 2012 by garethr (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Good luck with 3G, I used to sell them but gave up, the company that makes them are a nightmare to deal with, never again for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 21, 2012 Share Posted February 21, 2012 Good luck with 3G, I used to sell them but gave up, the company that makes them are a nightmare to deal with, never again for me. I'm guessing that's why it took a UK supplier 6 weeks to get mine to me then lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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