The devolution of Scotland, and effectively the UK

[j_jza80]

Given how much media coverage there's been on this subject recently, I was suprised not to see an existing thread on the topic.

 

What are your views on Scotland and the proposed devolution?

 

Personaly, I think it would be a great shame. Salmond wants to break up our existing union, which works, in favour of joining Europe, a union which doesn't work.

I'm proud to be British, and I believe that as a United nation we are greater than the sum of our parts.

 

There's also the second option being touted, Devolution maxi (IIRC) which is short of a full split, but gives more powers to Scottish parliament.

[jonathanc]

Multiple choice polls lol I don't really fancy dev maxi as we will completely loose our identity.

[stevie_b]

A lot more detail needs to be worked out before anyone can make an informed decision IMO. People can say where idealistically they'd like Scotland to be independent, but they should also consider whether it is practical and feasible for Scotland to go it alone.

 

I think maxi devolution is a stepping stone to eventual and inevitable independence.

 

I do feel for the Scots and the Welsh sometimes that UK government is so London-centric.

[Westy]

I would vote NO. Scotland isn't in the financial position and has far too many benefit punters!

[Geo]

I would vote NO. Scotland isn't in the financial position and has far too many benefit punters!

 

[stevie_b]

I'm surprised. I would have thought almsot all Scots would vote Yes.

[Westcoaster]

I'm very much in favour of independance for my home country, I always have. It is not enough to be ruled from London and patronised in the way that we are. I also get irritated by patronising remarks about whether Scotland can manage as a country on it's own, with a population of 5,222,100 at latest estimates, that makes Scotland slightly smaller than Denmark and Finland in population, but larger than new Zealand, Norway, Croatia, Slovenia the Baltic states and Ireland.

 

There are numerous natural and renewable resources and sufficient high tech, engineering and medical research jobs to keep the country at the cutting edge of scientific developments. There won't be a problem in maintaining a First World lifestyle or GDP. The largest problem may be the influx of economic immigrants from other parts of the EU!

 

The problem with the UK government, is that it will wish to retain it's Security Council priviledges and it's nuclear deterrant, without having the resources to back them up.

 

Bring it on I say, I'd love to see it happen in my lifetime!

[fullthrottle]

I understand how people at first would say yes because they are being very proud scots, but can you imagine all the problems it would cause for example the army belongs to the queen, then what about the nhs and the british passport (the best passport in the world for travel) could you imagine every scot having to turn in there passport tomorrow as they are no longer british it would be mayhem and i think a bad idea.

yes we have have our little banter when the football is on but we are so much better off sticking together

and one more thing remember the last priminister was a scot and the royal family has scottish bloodlines

[j_jza80]

I would vote NO. Scotland isn't in the financial position and has far too many benefit punters!

 

The estimates that I've seen show that it's very close, though it's suspected that a small majority would vote in favour of the UK.

 

I don't think there's any question of the Scots being able to fend for themselves, but the country WOULD be poorer financially. Glasgow has one of the highest levels of unemployment in the UK, which would be supported by a population of 6 million, instead of over 60 million!

 

Also, who does Salmond expect to foot the bill for this? This will be a very expensive process, whatever the outcome, and I wouldn't consider it fair for the rest of the UK to foot the bill for one countrys independence.

 

As said though, he's not really after independence. He wants to leave us and get into bed with the Eurozone. Considering that house of cards has started falling down, I can't see the logic.

[stevie_b]

I understand how people at first would say yes because they are being very proud scots, but can you imagine all the problems it would cause for example the army belongs to the queen, then what about the nhs and the british passport (the best passport in the world for travel) could you imagine every scot having to turn in there passport tomorrow as they are no longer british it would be mayhem and i think a bad idea.

yes we have have our little banter when the football is on but we are so much better off sticking together

and one more thing remember the last priminister was a scot and the royal family has scottish bloodlines

IMost of those things are easily overcome though. Scotland could form its own armed forces in time. Paying to set up a military infrastructure (equipment, staff, HQs etc) from scratch would be very costly but could be done bit by bit. An independent Scotland could probably lay claim to some of the UK's armed forces infrastructure seeing as Scottish taxes have helped fund it.

 

The NHS could probably be split into an SHS and an EWHS without too much pain (?).

 

Passports could be replaced in tranches, with the existing UK ones being honoured for the next 1-2 years.

 

Questions of what to do about the currency are more tricky. Would Scotland keep the Pound?

 

The currency would need serious thought though.

[Max Headroom]

As an englishman I am all for scottish independence, means we dont have to pay the Barnett formula to them

[bigbloodyturbo]

just my 2p's worth. I'd vote no aswell. People have differing opinions but in my view Scotland doesn't have the ability to govern itself, it would turn into one big mess.

[Supra Gaz]

A really interesting subject, it comes down to oil, who gets the North sea oil deposits, can Scotland lay claim to them without a navy of its own? Scotland has a strong infrastructure which could allow it to stand strong alone but it would take time and more importantly money, the latter of which they do not have. Would the Scotts be willing to have taxes raised to fund a new armed forces and Scottish health care? Also the issue of how the country is seen internationally from a credit point of view, do they take a portion of our debt with them as the Scottish people helped to create it?

[Scott]

I'm very much in favour of independance for my home country, I always have. It is not enough to be ruled from London and patronised in the way that we are. I also get irritated by patronising remarks about whether Scotland can manage as a country on it's own, with a population of 5,222,100 at latest estimates, that makes Scotland slightly smaller than Denmark and Finland in population, but larger than new Zealand, Norway, Croatia, Slovenia the Baltic states and Ireland.

 

There are numerous natural and renewable resources and sufficient high tech, engineering and medical research jobs to keep the country at the cutting edge of scientific developments. There won't be a problem in maintaining a First World lifestyle or GDP. The largest problem may be the influx of economic immigrants from other parts of the EU!

 

The problem with the UK government, is that it will wish to retain it's Security Council priviledges and it's nuclear deterrant, without having the resources to back them up.

 

Bring it on I say, I'd love to see it happen in my lifetime!

 

 

 

Totally agree with that.

 

I honestly don't know which route I would choose though. Years ago I was all for independence but I feel that things have imrpoved a little with the introduction of the Scottish parliament and the fact that we actually have the power to chose independence. We haven't been in such a position for years.

 

The way this nation is ran with Scotland being the forgotten cousin (not to mention Wales and NI) is just a joke. Even the outer parts of England are forgotten about, it's always all about London and the surrounding areas.

 

I wouldn't mind a crystal ball but I wouldn't for one minute think that Scotland would fail on its own, I think it would thrive.

[bigbloodyturbo]

if we do get independance does that mean we can decide on our own fuel duty? if so then this may sway my answer.

[Scott]

A really interesting subject, it comes down to oil, who gets the North sea oil deposits, can Scotland lay claim to them without a navy of its own? Scotland has a strong infrastructure which could allow it to stand strong alone but it would take time and more importantly money, the latter of which they do not have. Would the Scotts be willing to have taxes raised to fund a new armed forces and Scottish health care? Also the issue of how the country is seen internationally from a credit point of view, do they take a portion of our debt with them as the Scottish people helped to create it?

 

The budget for taxes would actually be less as Scotland subsidises England when it comes to healthcare and benefits. The UK debt would have to be taken into consideration though, I'm guessing the Scottish debt would be totted up.

 

The forces wouldn't be too much of an issue as the rest of the UK wouldn't require the size of forces that it has and downsizing would be required. Any Scottish person in the UK forces, I would think, would automatically be transferred to Scotland... as obviously that is where their loyalties would now lie.

[Scott]

if we do get independance does that mean we can decide on our own fuel duty? if so then this may sway my answer.

 

Of course, I don't think WE would be deciding though lol.

[bigbloodyturbo]

Of course, I don't think WE would be deciding though lol.

 

 

well aslong as either fuel or fags comes down I'm not bothered but I'm needing a bloody break here! Don't even get me started on my vodka budget.....

[The-Plethora]

I am in two minds about it really. I am all for us being united but the current system of tuition fees and perscription fees is unfair, either we are all united and under the same rules or we aren't. If Scotland choose to leave then you can't just pick and choose the good bits to hang on to. We pack a much bigger punch when we are together

 

Likewise I can understand their view for independance and wanting to do things alone, I just hope things are properly thought through. Trying to take an unbiased view (as much as you can being English) I think in the very short term it would probably work but long term I can't see it lasting.

 

Edit: As for the focus on London I agree, move it all more centrally and stop calling it "the city" which ones that then?

[j_jza80]

The way this nation is ran with Scotland being the forgotten cousin (not to mention Wales and NI) is just a joke. Even the outer parts of England are forgotten about, it's always all about London and the surrounding areas.

 

If anything, it's worse here in North Yorkshire.

 

Something does need to change in the way our nation is run, but this proposed split is not the way to do it. If anything, it will create more resentment than already exists, on all sides. this is because there no fair way of splitting our debts and assets. Our wealth, and debt were created collectively.

 

If Salmond is consistent, this would mean the debt would be based on territory rather than population (this is how he's proposing to split the north sea oil) which would burden Scotland with a huge amount of the debt, 1/3rd of it infact!. I have a feeling he won't want that

[Westcoaster]

For those who were confused about the NHS status in Scotland, it's totally independant:

 

"NHS Scotland (Gaelic: SNS Alba or Seirbheis Slàinte na h-Alba) is the publicly funded healthcare system of Scotland. Although they are separate bodies the organisational separation between NHS Scotland and the other three healthcare organisations each commonly called the National Health Service in the United Kingdom tends to be hidden from its users due to the co-ordination and co-operation where "cross-border" or emergency care is involved. In 2006, the NHS in Scotland had around 158,000 staff including more than 47,500 nurses, midwives and health visitors and over 3,800 consultants. In addition, there are also more than 12,000 doctors, family practitioners and allied health professionals, including dentists, opticians and community pharmacists, who operate as independent contractors providing a range of services within the NHS in return for fees and allowances.[1] It had an operating budget of £9.3Bn in 2008/09.[2]

Healthcare policy and funding is the responsibility of the Scottish Government's Health and Wellbeing Directorate. The current Cabinet Secretary for Health and Wellbeing is Nicola Sturgeon and the Director-General (DG) for Health and Social care is Derek Feeley.[3] A website has been created to mark 60 years of the NHS in Scotland"

 

From wikipedia

 

As for the Scottish military, application for NATO membership will provide lavish supplies of US equipment. Well that worked for the former Eastern bloc countries!

[Supra Gaz]

The budget for taxes would actually be less as Scotland subsidises England when it comes to healthcare and benefits. The UK debt would have to be taken into consideration though, I'm guessing the Scottish debt would be totted up.

 

The forces wouldn't be too much of an issue as the rest of the UK wouldn't require the size of forces that it has and downsizing would be required. Any Scottish person in the UK forces, I would think, would automatically be transferred to Scotland... as obviously that is where their loyalties would now lie.

 

Good points, well put. I think the UK would continue to resist simply on the grounds of the North sea oil, it is a major financial stream for the Uk. Most of the infrastructure is there for them to be self sufficient. It also sets a prescidence for northern island, why stop at Scotland....

[monsween]

A really interesting subject, it comes down to oil, who gets the North sea oil deposits, can Scotland lay claim to them without a navy of its own? Scotland has a strong infrastructure which could allow it to stand strong alone but it would take time and more importantly money, the latter of which they do not have. Would the Scotts be willing to have taxes raised to fund a new armed forces and Scottish health care? Also the issue of how the country is seen internationally from a credit point of view, do they take a portion of our debt with them as the Scottish people helped to create it?

 

Does that mean England would take the oil? Bear in mind the main pipelines run into Scotland and not England.

 

Scotlands biggest card is Oil as you have said. I think we'd do better on our own to begin with then it would all go downhill. My vote would be not to do it.

[tony tt]

In my opinion I think we would be better off ourselves. How does Westminster know what's best for us 600miles away. At least our taxes would be going to bail us out and help benefit our own country. Within the next 15 years £250billion of scottish drilled oil will have been pumped into the treasury in england. How much of that will be spent in Scotland? The uk govt is bricking it because if they lose the revenue from oil there there in the s##t. For hundreds of years we have been taxed and raped by the crown it's time we stood up and made our own decisions to shape our future for the better. Will independence reduce fuel duty who knows but at least it's a chance for change. Norway stands alone and is one of the richest countries in Europe through their oil there's no reason Scotland can't do the same.

[grahamc]

Vote no or Scotland will be next on the list to be "saved" from its oil reserves....