My mr2 project

[Guest toxo]

Water/meth injection. You cannot cool the intake of these engines enough.

[johnny g]

Bumping this thread back up with an update of what's been happening - precisely nothing!

 

I was messed about a bit by the transport company but the Rev 2 turbo donor is finally being delivered to the mechanic tomorrow. I / we decided that our knowledge, skills and time (time that Josh has spare that is - I have plenty but the illness means my strength is not great) are not good enough to do the project as a diy thing. To this end I have met and commissioned a chap called Alun Jenkins (AJ Engines) from Caerleon (about 35 miles from me) to do the work and after meeting with him a few times, I have every confidence in him being able to deliver what we require.

 

I have already bought an Apexi Gt exhaust and a ST205 charge cooler and pump and am now on the lookout for the following:

 

Electronic Boost Controller

New Bosch pump for the CC

Rad for the CC

3" D/P

I'd put a Walbro in the fuel tank as well - if you're upgrading your UK car

I am assuming that with these fitted I should see anything between 260 and 280 BHP? Now, I have a couple of questions that I am hoping you can answer.

 

1. Alun has a spare megasquirt set up (not sure on cost yet) that could be for sale. Worth it or not?

It depends on the model - if it's MS3X, then I'd look at it. You'll gain some decent power there, I believe.

2. Is it worth upgrading the ignition system to a distributorless ignition? I have been told that something like a crank trigger wheel from EFIParts - and some 1ZZ-FE coils with smart-igniters might do some interesting things but I am unsure as to the cost of this upgrade.

Crank trigger is pennies - coils can be had for reasonable amounts and might provide some nice refinement if the MegaSquirt is a later model.

3. Would I be better off changing the CT26 turbo for the Rev 3 CT20?

I would! Avoid hybrids. I've seen 335bhp on the CT20 on a Rev 3 (Motec M4, WI, cams, etc).

4. I have seen a cheap emanage blue for sale. Would it be worth buying this piggy back based on the above upgrades? Or does the megasquirt cover this?

I'd always go with a decent standalone over an oldish piggyback - really depends on the spec of the MegaSquirt though - and who'll map it.

5. If I implemented these changes, would |I need to look at strengthening the bottom / top end of the engine or would it cope?

I'd not say so. My black Rev 2 ran 1.4bar on the CT26 (WAY out of range) for 3 years, no problem. Good tuning will do no harm.

Thanks for your anticipated help.

Welcome!

[CJ]

Once again my friend, I thank you for your input.

[CJ]

Another question:

 

Would Rev 3 cams from a turbo car add anything?

[johnny g]

Only the inlet cam.

Get some 550 injectors from a rev 3 too if you can if you're going mega squirt

[CJ]

Only the inlet cam.

Get some 550 injectors from a rev 3 too if you can if you're going mega squirt

Buggernuts! I recently walked away from a set of injectors being sold for £30 and now they are gone

[Scott]

I agree with what's being said.

 

The whole issue here is going to be money CJ. With most of what you have said I'm thinking "oh that would be nice", but it's all coming down to cost and priority.

 

With a chargecooler and running 1.1bar you will easily be above 280hp. For the radiator just get a cinquecento rad, it's perfect for the front. It can be a little footery to fit but with access to making your own bracketing (which this guy will have) it'll be a doddle.

 

Standalone - Would be nice and will get the most out of the car that you possibly can. Unfortunately, as said, the maximum you are going to get from it is 30hp, but you will also gain a smoother curve (more power across the whole range) making it a better drive.

 

Ignition System - Sounds great, but it also sounds like a bit much of a muchness. As said the dizzy system works fine, if it was hopeless everyone would be swapping it out.

 

CT20b - As said the major drawback with the CT26 is the fact that it tails off at the higher RPM. Once you are getting towards 6k the boost starts to drop off and you can really feel it. Getting cams etc will just choke the engine so the cheapest alternative is to fit a CT20b. Just FYI, single kits for the MR2 aren't anywhere near TT money so it might be an option. If you do look into it, aim for around 350 max.

 

Steel Headgasket - Always worthwhile.

 

Rebuild - If things haven't changed I think it's said that pushing past the 350 mark is where you might be getting into squeeky bum territory. The steel headgasket and a good tune will let you into that sort of level without worry IMO (hence why I said 350). It's been a while since I was into that scene though so opinions may have changed.

[CJ]

Thanks Scott

 

The turbo car arrived with AJ today and he tells me the engine sounds as sweet as a nut. That's great news as once again I bought this blind.

 

I'm going to meet up with him in the next few days to finalise the plan for the car. We had talked (albeit fleetingly and without costs) about putting in a Lexus V* lump with 2 turbos but after looking at the engine bay size there is just no way it is going to fit. TBH the cost would probably have frightened me to death anyway but it was nice to dream for a few hours.

 

I have also looked into the Camry V6 transplant route but as Bobski had mentioned earlier, whilst you get the torque and lovely gradual power I think I would miss the kick of the turbo. Maybe a V6 with a turbo attached in the future?

 

For now I think I will be taking the advice given so far and looking to get as close to 300bhp as possible with readily available parts and without spending silly money. That will mean no megasquirt, no e-manage and no change of ignition but maybe a change of turbo to CT20 / 20B and maybe cams if I can buy them cheap enough.

 

Can someone advise as to a model number for the Bosch pump to run with the charge cooler set up?

[dude]

Id prob go megasquirt over e manage any day.

[CJ]

Id prob go megasquirt over e manage any day.

 

For now I think I will be taking the advice given so far and looking to get as close to 300bhp as possible with readily available parts and without spending silly money. That will mean no megasquirt, no e-manage and no change of ignition but maybe a change of turbo to CT20 / 20B and maybe cams if I can buy them cheap enough.

 

 

Please keep up Dude

[Guest toxo]

Lexus V8 into an AW11 is being / has been done. It did involve cutting and extending the chassis though... There's a guy on the OC who's doing it into an SW20 but his progress has been quite slow (as you would expect for a homebrew install like that).

 

I've no experience myself of using aftermarket pumps on the chargecooler but the stock one is quite a high flowing pump and you're only going to be adding to the load by putting an extra ~5L of coolant into it by having the engine in the middle. Make sure you use quite a beefy pump.

 

Also it's worth heatwrapping the underside of the chargecooler core if not done already. It sits milimetres off the head so picks up quite a bit of heat from the engine. I wouldn't bother with cams to be honest if your target is ~300FWBHP. CT20b turbo, metal head gasket, an aftermarket boost controller, chargecooler and the usual breathing mods will get you to that, on stock management.

[CJ]

The original pump has now been found (it was not sent with the first package) and so we will look at this and ensure it is working properly then probably use that.

 

Good advice re the heatwrapping - I will pass that onto Alun

[Guest toxo]

The site doesn't allow hotlinking, but if you go to http://www.gtfours.co.uk/ and click How to -> Repair/Maintain -> Overhaul IC pump -> 205 there is a guide detailing the required bearings etc to rebuild the pump.

[CJ]

The site doesn't allow hotlinking, but if you go to http://www.gtfours.co.uk/ and click How to -> Repair/Maintain -> Overhaul IC pump -> 205 there is a guide detailing the required bearings etc to rebuild the pump.

 

Superb - thank you very much

[CJ]

I wouldn't bother with cams to be honest if your target is ~300FWBHP. CT20b turbo, metal head gasket, an aftermarket boost controller, chargecooler and the usual breathing mods will get you to that, on stock management.

I was looking at the cams as they were cheap at £50 and do seemed to offer VFM if they gave added performance.

 

What do you consider to be the usual breathing mods?

[Guest toxo]

The issue with changing the cams is that to get the most benefit from them you need to muck about with engine management. You don't need to mess with the ECU (bar bypassing its boost control and perhaps fuel cut) to hit your target.

 

By usual breathing mods I meant a decat pipe, an unrestrictive exhaust and an unrestrictive air filter.

[Scott]

I was looking at the cams as they were cheap at £50 and do seemed to offer VFM if they gave added performance.

 

What do you consider to be the usual breathing mods?

 

Cams are as much use in an MR2 as they are in a Supra when they aren't controlled by management CJ.

 

Having said that, you currently have a Rev2 tubby with Rev2 management which is setup for the CT26 and the slightly different Rev2 cams. It might be worthwhile changing the cams to Rev3+ in order to make use of the extra boost at the upper end of the rev limiter, as you will be going CT20b, as the CT26 would normally be tailing off and dropping power.

[CJ]

By usual breathing mods I meant a decat pipe, an unrestrictive exhaust and an unrestrictive air filter.

That is interesting you mention the air filter as that was going to be my next question.

 

On this forum the general consensus of opinion is to stick to the OEM set up as it offers good filtration with the added benefit of heat shielding. I wasn't sure if that was also true of the MR2 OEM set up or, if an after-market set up such as K@N, Blitz, Apexi et al would be the preferred choice when looking for more power.

[johnny g]

It's only the Rev 3 inlet cam you'd need.

I would think about the MegaSquirt and going MAP based, removing the AFM restriction.

[CJ]

Cams are as much use in an MR2 as they are in a Supra when they aren't controlled by management CJ.

 

Having said that, you currently have a Rev2 tubby with Rev2 management which is setup for the CT26 and the slightly different Rev2 cams. It might be worthwhile changing the cams to Rev3+ in order to make use of the extra boost at the upper end of the rev limiter, as you will be going CT20b, as the CT26 would normally be tailing off and dropping power.

Just to clarify in my mind here - the current Rev 2 ECU will handle the upgrades mentioned so far (no change of turbo and no cams) with no issues. However, would this same ECU be OK with the change of turbo to the CT20B and cams or would that entail some sort of piggy back / stand alone?

[Scott]

That is interesting you mention the air filter as that was going to be my next question.

 

On this forum the general consensus of opinion is to stick to the OEM set up as it offers good filtration with the added benefit of heat shielding. I wasn't sure if that was also true of the MR2 OEM set up or, if an after-market set up such as K@N, Blitz, Apexi et al would be the preferred choice when looking for more power.

 

I told you.... apexi

 

The stock setup can be improved upon in the MR2 because of the engine location etc. The aftermarket kits (the good ones anyway) offer less restriction while being placed in the ideal situation (aiming towards the side skirt intake). The Apexi comes with a heatshield to protect it from heat radiation and also it works well to keep the rain off thanks to the vents letting water in. You could stick in a couple of pipes down at the intake to add to the sort of forced induction aspect of it all & keep temps down.

 

I wouldn't think twice about the decision, Apexi every day of the week for me. The proper kit though, none of the copy crap or the non-heatshield kit.

[CJ]

It's only the Rev 3 inlet cam you'd need.

I would think about the MegaSquirt and going MAP based, removing the AFM restriction.

The megasquirt than AJ has is an old (as in one of the first) models and so In his opinion not worth fitting to the car. Whilst i would like to use that system (or something like it) I am concious of costs involved and so (for the time being at least) I wont be planning on using a piggy or stand alone.

[Scott]

Just to clarify in my mind here - the current Rev 2 ECU will handle the upgrades mentioned so far (no change of turbo and no cams) with no issues. However, would this same ECU be OK with the change of turbo to the CT20B and cams or would that entail some sort of piggy back / stand alone?

 

You will have no issues changing the tubby and the cams. The Rev1/2 overfuel like a mofo so there is plenty of headroom for upping the boost and a minor change in the cams.

 

However, if you want to make the most out of the engine then a standalone will always improve things. The same is said for a totally stock setup though.

[CJ]

I told you.... apexi

You did indeed

 

I wouldn't think twice about the decision, Apexi every day of the week for me. The proper kit though, none of the copy crap or the non-heatshield kit.

Thank you my friend - time to add that to my list.

[CJ]

However, if you want to make the most out of the engine then a standalone will always improve things. The same is said for a totally stock setup though.

I agree but have decided that the standalone is going to be outside of my budget (which TBH doesn't really have a number attached but is a sort of rough guide in my head) and will have to wait until the future when I decide on the next series of upgrades.

 

For the time being I am going to stick to the plan of trying to get the car to as close as 300bhp as we can using the readily available and reasonably inexpensive mods. These will now include:

 

Apexi Gt exhaust (obtained)

ST205 Charge cooler and pump (obtained)

Heatwrap for the CC

Electronic Boost Controller

New Bosch pump for the CC (if needed)

Rad for the CC (obtained)

3" D/P (obtained)

Rev 3 metal HG

Apexi air intake (obtained)

CT20B turbo (possibly)

Rev 3 cams (possibly)

 

That would seem to be the finished list - probably