Guest chris t4 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 It's hard to explain as I don't know all the technical jargon relating to cars, I know what I mean in my head though I understand what you mean by if it's on a MAF, I would be surprised if it hadn't been converted to MAP at the same time as going single though... what with an ECU running the bigger injectors etc. I was taking the 2 points from you as seperate so I bypassed the MAF point without mentioning it, sorry for the confusion. To try and clarify where i was coming from.... Obviously in an N/A you get a negative pressure at the manifold due to the engine trying to pull the air into it. Not that many people do it but you can see this from a vacuum gauge. On a turbo engine exactly the same can be said at idle, just thinking about it I assumed that was because the exhaust flow wasn't high enough to spin the turbo to the level required to even atain atmospheric. With the throttle wide open enough flow is given to see round about zero (atmospheric) so from that I assumed that with a pipe off... it would still idle just the same and even if it wouldn't, you would still be able to start it by giving it a little bit of throttle. As I say, that's in my head though (as that's where I tend to live most of the time ) so it could be wholy inaccurate but I just don't see how the car won't start with a pipe gone, other than if MAF related of course. lol i no what you mean more or less. its not going to be any pipes or breathers and ive had a really good look and its nothing obvious. im a bit worried about the cam belt and the worn back edge, it would suggest a possible pulley problem, torque developements told me they had checked it (rubbish) i still dont see it being the cause and im really swayed to it be electrical apose to mechanical. like i said anyone that may of had a similar problem please im all ears, i really want to get it sorted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris t4 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 and as far as i no its on standard injectors and standard ecu, again this is what tdi in thurrock told me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Hmm, this sounds a bit iffy then... for a single install anyway. Taking everything back as simple as possible you only really need 4 things for the car to start.... air, fuel, spark and timing. If there are no leaks and nothing has changed mechanically then the air delivery should be OK. I would guess it isn't the issue. 1st thing to check is that you are getting a spark. Remove the spark plug cover, pull out the EFI fuses, remove the coilpacks & spark plugs. One at a time check each coilpack with spark plug in it by holding it against the block and having someone crank the car. If each of them are ok then check each of the spark plugs. If each of them are OK then your spark is fine. If you can hear your fuel pump whirring when it's priming then that's most likely not the issue although it could be injector related. If you can get the crank round to TDC you will be able to quickly see if the timing is OK. You can try cranking the engine to see if you can get lucky, otherwise I think the fan and cowling may need to come out to give you access to turn it (unless you can get in from underneath). If everything above checks out then I would guess it's the injectors or something to do with that side of things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Take ALL the hoses between throttle body, via intercooler, to turbo compressor OFF, check them properly for splits and that they REALLY are on properly. I get lots of cars where the owner has checked all the pipes, yet managed to miss one that looks as if it's on but just separates under boost, or has a split that only opens under boost. I should charge double for these cases.... hmmmm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
absz Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 CHECK the crankshaft sensor and the pickup star for the sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 It's hard to explain as I don't know all the technical jargon relating to cars, I know what I mean in my head though I got the idea from that, the car should run fine when off-boost even with a hose off, and yes you're right, mine has done that on more than one occasion in the past That's if it's MAP based, anyway. Sounds like it's running stock ECU and fuelling on a big single turbo I guess the question that still needs answering is, is it MAF or MAP based? Is there a MAF sensor box up by the air intake filter...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted January 20, 2012 Share Posted January 20, 2012 i very much doubt it will be electrical mate, that would NOT explain your loud bang if anything ectrical made a loud bang enough to here while driving there would be definat signs, imo its a pipe! or worse being that your single on stock ecu and injectors. you will be runing lean full boost and the timing could be too advanced for a big single and lead to det and melting a piston worse case. answer the MAF question If you are MAF then double check the intercooler pipes If you are MAP only then do a compresson test cheap easy and you will know where you stand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris t4 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 ok then im taking it all in,, but i thought map and maf were the same (sorry) mass air flow, it has nothing on the air box that i can see and the map is on the top of the throttle chamber correct? its a 3bar toyota part in place. and if there was any pipes split surely it would idle? i will however double check tho. the timming on the cam pulleys are fine but i only used the previous owners tipexed marking, not the best i know but seeing as i did 500 miles in it before i shipped it over here im taking it that the timming was fine before, i havent yet checked the crank side but i would find it very difficult th skip a tooth on the crank, ok so ill check the spark, listen for the fuel pump etc and report back, thanks again,, deffinately a helpfull bunch on the this forum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraStar 3000 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Good luck Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Are the cam pulleys stock or adjustable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris t4 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Are the cam pulleys stock or adjustable? No standard cams and pulleys , the car is stock with a big single air filter fmic alloy rad six branch manifold a full Decat exhaust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I would look towards the crank sensor or the cam sensor then. I don't think I recall any issues where the car wouldn't start yet would backfire, but there have certainly been issues mentioned with non-starting when the crank sensor is down. Check the car for error codes, it's possible the ECU might know what's wrong Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris t4 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Cheers buddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris t4 Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Ok well I'm just having a pint and a tapa on the beech ATM and don't even want to look at it at the mo lol I'll get back on the case monday , at least me and my ford connect have a relationship lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 Or have you blown off a turbo hose, common problem and usually starts with a loud pop when coming on boost followed by crap, if any, idle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supra Gaz Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 I'm probably well off the mark here but could it be fuel starvation preventing it starting? The bang could of been any number of things? I hit a fox and it made a hell of a smack. I would have to say it could be a pipe, if not and your running single on standard ecu you may have been underfueling and killed something inside. Good luck anyway dude, I hope its only a poxy sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chris t4 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 tdi are really well known and they said the set up was the nuts and all presures and temps were perfect only running half bar of boost so internal damage is probably not the case, (so stop scaring me.) ive had it on three diagnostics now and none will comunicate with the car, so how can i check it my self, and if so tell me in datail how to do it please, so that i can show the guy tommorrow. cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 tdi are really well known and they said the set up was the nuts and all presures and temps were perfect only running half bar of boost so internal damage is probably not the case, (so stop scaring me.) ive had it on three diagnostics now and none will comunicate with the car, so how can i check it my self, and if so tell me in datail how to do it please, so that i can show the guy tommorrow. cheers You're now coming across very ratty and demanding with people who are only trying to help. With that I'm out, best of luck with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 use the serch button mate fault codes . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 If the car won't start but backfires, the ignition timing is the problem somehow, whether it be from cam/belt maladjustment or fuelling issues, such as a faulty injector/connection. If diagnostics won't communicate with the OBD2/ECU, it's obviously faulty. Since you don't have a distributor to twiddle, you need to check the cam position sensor and related connections first, for obvious signs of physical timing issues. Can you actually read the fault codes from the OBD2 port under the steering column? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littler Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Don't prefacelift supra's have the OBD1 connection? Could be wrong though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) You're now coming across very ratty and demanding with people who are only trying to help. Is he? I don't think so atall. Useless at following instructions, yes but ratty, no. Chris, just kidding but have you or others checked the actual ignition timing? I mean eliminated the basics first, as you say the belt has signs of rubbing on the back edge, so it could have ridden up and skipped teeth, as previously suggested. Are you absolutely sure you haven't got any coil bind in the valve springs? Have the cams/springs been changed atall? This could make life harder for the timing belt and cause it to shift sideways under load, then skip if the camshafts are binding. Are you running a stock cambelt? If not you should get a Gates T215RB or HKS equivalent, just to be safe. Another question; is the cambelt tensioner working ok? If the cast bracket is cracked or the bearing is worn, it could misalign the belt. Check the lower timing cover for signs of wear in that area. Obviously requires removal of crank pulley but a good opportunity to change the belt. You really need to thoroughly check the basics first. If you were just coming onto boost when it popped, detonation isn't likely so forget major internal damage, I agree, though if it skipped teeth, it's quite likely. Either way, you have a cambelt problem and it should be changed and all pulleys/tensioner and cams need a thorough eyeballing. Edited January 22, 2012 by Morpheus (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Don't prefacelift supra's have the OBD1 connection? Could be wrong though? Not sure about Supras but generally 1996 was the OBD2 introduction. Either way, it needs reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Hey Chris, I just re-read your first post and it seems obvious that TDI did something wrong. Nevermind their reputation, they screwed up your engine. You drove it 100 yards after they had worked on it and it went bang. What do they have to say? Maybe someone left a fuse out or shorted the connection that I don't know on the Supra but to check the timing? The mechanic could simply have forgotten something. Was it on a Friday afternoon? Never let anyone touch your engine on a Friday afternoon unless you know them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littler Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Either way, it needs reading. Very true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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