HTPC- what's the point?

[Digsy]

I've had a home cinema setup for several years now. It was quite swanky back in the day but now its a bit lacking, so I started toying with the idea of building an HTPC rather than updating all my various boxes and cables and amp to support HD sources.

 

However, I immediately hit two major snags:

 

1) No Blu-ray support in Windows Media Centre.

2) Absolutely no way to get Sky using an HTPC DVB-S card.

3) EPG downloaded from the internet rather than satellite.

 

I appreciate that there is almost certainly a solution to (1) in using a different media centre solution, but (2) is the real show stopper. I already subscribe to Sky+ so would be looking for the PVR / satellite solution to all go in one box. However, no Sky means I would have to drop back to FreeSat. Ironically, with all those channels at my disposal I usually only watch the documentary ones - none od which are available on FreeSat. The suggested workaround for this on the Windows Media player website is to route the output from the Sky Digibox through the HTPC using a TV tuner, and then use IR blasters to make sure the Sky box is set to the right channel for recording. Sorry, but that soltuion was in vogue in the early 90s and I'm not taking a backwards step.

 

So I go to thinking I could leave Sky in a seperate box and then just combine everything else, but what's the point? I would simply be replacing my DVD player with an HTPC box so I wouldn't really be adding any functionality at all apart from being able to play media from my NAS drive. As I already have a "normal" PC linked into my home cinema that would be pointless, too.

 

So it would appear that in order to combine everything into a one-box solution, I would have to forego Sky and kiss goodbye to the only channels that I actually like watching. Plus at a rough cost estimate I reckon it would set me back about £600 for the privelege.

 

(3) seems odd too. My understanding is that although the EPG is present in the satellite data, HTPCs ignore that and use an internet based solution. I'm sure that's fine, but it seems a bit shonky. I have also read a few accounts on line of people having trouble keeping the downloaded EPG channels list in sync with the channels being recieved by the DVB-S card. As this is home entertainment rather than computer geekery I just want it to work when I want to watch TV, and not require endless fiddling around with.

 

You can see what I was planning in the attachment. I'd love to do this, but I really can't see the point. Am I missing something?

[Wez]

A nice large NAS with DNLA, some homeplugs and a Sony SMP-N100 media player, job done

 

http://www.play.com/Electronics/Electronics/4-/17467873/Sony-SMP-N100-Internet-TV-DLNA-USB-Media-player-Network-Media-Player-with-WIFI/Product.html

[Digsy]

A nice large NAS with DNLA, some homeplugs and a Sony SMP-N100 media player, job done

 

http://www.play.com/Electronics/Electronics/4-/17467873/Sony-SMP-N100-Internet-TV-DLNA-USB-Media-player-Network-Media-Player-with-WIFI/Product.html

 

Arrrgh! That's another box! I want less boxes!!

 

I thought a few people on here had built HTPCs. I might post this over on AV Forums but I suspct I'll get swamped with half-arsed haxxxorz workarounds for the Sky problem.

 

I appreciate that an HTPC is simple to do if all you want to do is watch media you have already recorded, or watch straight from DVD, but if you want a fully integrated system it seems to get a lot more difficult if you have a subscription based satellite or cable service.

 

Shame that Sky don't do a PCI card version of their decoder.

[Wez]

Shame that Sky don't do a PCI card version of their decoder.

 

Would open the floodgates to hacking, like the old software you could run via serial to decode the sky channels

[Scott]

What you are asking is VERY difficult IMO. Nothing is impossible, and I dare say a clever person has nailed all the bits together to do it but it's always going to be hard to do on a mainstream level.

 

Can you not use a card reader and an official sky card to decode channels on a satellite DVB? I always thought that was how the guys did the card share? Regardless that's going to be going down a route you don't want to go down (haxxxors etc).

 

 

The only way I can see you doing it is with 2 boxes, the sky box and your HTPC. A IR blaster is always going to come into play, regardless of how old the tech is.... it still works.

[Digsy]

Can you not use a card reader and an official sky card to decode channels on a satellite DVB? I always thought that was how the guys did the card share? Regardless that's going to be going down a route you don't want to go down (haxxxors etc).

 

Yeah, there is a way, but its not simple. Basically a card reader and some l33t code that can do the decoding on a PC. There is a 29 page thread on AVForums about it. Its a bit of a grey area because while it isn't illegal (becaue you are still paying for a Sky subscription) it does breach their terms, which state that their smartcards can only be used in Sky equipment. It also requires regular maintenance of the EPG because channels don't update automatically in the background like they do on the native Sky hardware.

 

Its a real shame because we are really at the stage now where one PC-based box should be able to replace all the clutter and cables that a normal AV setup requires. Sky really ought to get with the times and offer a CIM / CAM decoder card solution for suitably equipped Freesat TVs and HTPCs.

 

If Freesat ever expands their channel range to cover my tastes a bit more, I think I will definetaly go down this route.

[Willson]

Can you not just hide the clutter in a cupboard or something?

[Scott]

Yeah, there is a way, but its not simple. Basically a card reader and some l33t code that can do the decoding on a PC. There is a 29 page thread on AVForums about it. Its a bit of a grey area because while it isn't illegal (becaue you are still paying for a Sky subscription) it does breach their terms, which state that their smartcards can only be used in Sky equipment. It also requires regular maintenance of the EPG because channels don't update automatically in the background like they do on the native Sky hardware.

 

Its a real shame because we are really at the stage now where one PC-based box should be able to replace all the clutter and cables that a normal AV setup requires. Sky really ought to get with the times and offer a CIM / CAM decoder card solution for suitably equipped Freesat TVs and HTPCs.

 

If Freesat ever expands their channel range to cover my tastes a bit more, I think I will definetaly go down this route.

 

 

 

To be honest, for the most part, that has all been bypassed anyway. I don't think there would be any market for it. Take my TV for example, it's an internet enabled TV. This gives me access to all the freeview, youtube, facebook, Netflix etc. It also connects to my NAS drive so that I can watch video from it, not tried music but I guess it will do that too.

 

The only things missing from this setup are sky & an amp for speakers. To make another box that houses all the stuff that the TV can already do is a little bit pointless. The pausing & rewinding along with the recording is all controlled via the sky box anyway.

 

My setup is a PS3 and my TV upstairs, that's it. Everything I could ever want to watch is now available to me via my various TB of storage, netflix and my bluray connection. Again all that is missing for me is a surround sound setup but that's it.

 

Downstairs is a PS3, my TV and a Cable box. To be honest the cable box would be null and void if I wasn't lazy and put in an aerial as all i get are the freeview channels anyway. The PS3 is my mediacentre, I have 4 of them around the house, and they are absolutely fantastic at it.

[Digsy]

I see what you are saying, but I think there's still room for a true one-box "convergence" device for AV stuff. The PS3 does do a lot of this and I know several people use them as media hubs, but I wouldn't get one because I have no interest in gaming and it doesn't offer a pay-TV solution.

I can envisage a near-future where you go and buy a product which has a Blu-ray slot, network connectivity, media card slots, satellite and/or cable inputs and then you jst go to the next shelf and buy your CIM/CAM to plug in for your chosen pay TV supplier if you have one. In fact, as you say, you can get this now in a TV if you forego the integrated Blu-ray player and subscription channels, or in an HTPC if you just forego the subscription channels.

I could watch DVDs on my already connected "normal" PC if I wanted to go to the bother of ripping them first, but I'd still like a physical optical drive in my AV setup, especially as they are so cheap now.

[Scott]

I can envisage a near-future where you go and buy a product which has a Blu-ray slot, network connectivity, media card slots, satellite and/or cable inputs and then you jst go to the next shelf and buy your CIM/CAM to plug in for your chosen pay TV supplier if you have one. In fact, as you say, you can get this now in a TV if you forego the integrated Blu-ray player and subscription channels, or in an HTPC if you just forego the subscription channels.

 

This is my point really, there won't be much call for this given the amount that it will cost and the fact that most of the features are already covered.

 

Not so long ago I had a DM800 cable box with internal storage. It had a cable tuner, although you could choose which you wanted, supported HD and also did all the fancy stuff that Sky does. It would also connect to my network and I could access all my media through it. Basically from this one box I had everything that you want to do minus the ability to play bluray/dvds and surround sound. It was the size of a VHS casset tape, although not quite as big lengthwise, and used a 2.5" HDD.

 

I don't think it's ever going to be a viable cost effective solution to have everything in the one box given that almost everything is encompassed in modern TVs. I'll eat my hat if it happens at any point in the future to be honest. In the future everything will be handled in the TV, IMO. The surround sound system is always going to be seperate if you want good quality.