Neil-NA Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Right getting ready for the usual 'theres nothing worth doing to an NA apart from setting fire to it' but here goes. For quite some time now i have been looking at tyres for the NA as i have had major traction issues at the strip in 1st 2nd and 3rd, so i was looking at some MT ET streets @ roughly £150 each, now with having less than 250hp is the NA going to be able to use these to any advantage over a normal road tyre? i could do with knocking 1/2 a second atleast of my 1/4 time. Alternative is to get a set of T1R's @ just under £200 each. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Raven Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I have a view on this. Theres nothing worth doing to an NA apart from setting fire to it You made my quote list, as and when i work out why it isnt showing. Edited January 13, 2012 by The Raven (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobUK Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Reduce the weight of the car..... Or maybe just set fire to it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Setting fire to it would burn away all the weight if that helps? As for the tyres if you are getting traction issues in 1st, 2nd and 3rd with less than 250hp there is something very wrong with your setup. Do you currently have tyres on the car or are you just running bare rims? I get traction issues in 1st & 2nd when the 2nd turbo comes in, but on a dry road 3rd gear hooks up great on falken 452s. The fact that you have a LOT less power and are seeing traction issues worse than mine it would suggest that either the tyres you are running are seriously rubbish or the alignment at the rear is miles off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yes worth having for sure, you will most likely break your W58 box though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guigsy Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 No traction issues in 3rd on my single. And none at all in my auto And that's normal road rubber. I had trouble spinning up my 5 speed na in 2nd on a normal road. I'd be looking at your setup/technique more than countering the issue with expensive tyres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil-NA Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Yes worth having for sure, you will most likely break your W58 box though. I was worried about that but it seems most people strip 3rd gear and only when NA-T, I'm hoping its a risk worth taking. @ ScottM I do believe my old tyres were to blame (sorry should have posted the info, I made a thread about tyres being off) but rather than just stick more expensive road tyres I was going to see if the cheaper drag tyres would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guigsy Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Don't forget its torque that kills boxes. I'm no expert but I would imagine with sticky tyres your able to transmit more of it to the road. Where it might spin normally it would hook up instead which is where you might get an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Neil the simple fact neil you have spent time, money and effort with your car and took it to the strip and had traction issues, means the car is fully worth spending money to improve traction. If it wasn't worth it in your eyes, you wouldnt spend money on it. Us NA guys buy the NA cuz we love the supra and can't initally afford to run the TT's. If your having traction then clearly improving it will give you a better time. Hammers the w58 on 300bhp or less I think it will hold out pretty well. Speak to jekyl about how well his held out at 380bhp and he wasn't afraid to abuse it. The NA is a nippy motor. just because it isn't the faster model, does not mean its not worthey of your pennies. Get the radials, and improve your time! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 @ ScottM I do believe my old tyres were to blame (sorry should have posted the info, I made a thread about tyres being off) but rather than just stick more expensive road tyres I was going to see if the cheaper drag tyres would work. Personally I would try some reasonable road tyres first and see how you go there. I'm guessing you will be, or have already, getting some decent tyres for the road anyway? Drag radials will definitely give you more grip but I would be worried about them bogging the car down. They might give you too much traction for the power that you have, the width and size would need to be very carefully chosen and some testing would most likely need to be done. If you know the exact sizes to get, through others trying it before you, then it will probably be worth it. If not then it would be a guessing game which would end up very costly for not a lot of gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marc_p Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Drag radials will definitely give you more grip but I would be worried about them bogging the car down. To be honest you need a little wheelspin for an optimum launch, drag radials will just bog down on an N/A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil-NA Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Personally I would try some reasonable road tyres first and see how you go there. I'm guessing you will be, or have already, getting some decent tyres for the road anyway? Drag radials will definitely give you more grip but I would be worried about them bogging the car down. They might give you too much traction for the power that you have, the width and size would need to be very carefully chosen and some testing would most likely need to be done. If you know the exact sizes to get, through others trying it before you, then it will probably be worth it. If not then it would be a guessing game which would end up very costly for not a lot of gain. The tryes would have to be 245/55/16 t1rs which are just under £200 each or i can get MT et street 255/50/16 for £150 each. At the momnet i have 255/550/16 michelin pilto sport thats are years old. The bogging is what worries me but i suppose i could give it more revs I use 265/40/17 T1rs on the road but dont want to use them at the strip as i would need to change into 4th going over the line, thats why ive not used them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 The tryes would have to be 245/55/16 t1rs which are just under £200 each or i can get MT et street 255/50/16 for £150 each. At the momnet i have 255/550/16 michelin pilto sport thats are years old. The bogging is what worries me but i suppose i could give it more revs I use 265/40/17 T1rs on the road but dont want to use them at the strip as i would need to change into 4th going over the line, thats why ive not used them. You can redline with drag tyres and still bog down, it's very tricky getting the grip levels to match the power. Do you get wheelspin in the T1rs? If so you need to get your alignment checked as those are good tyres for dry grip, better than my 452s anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Neil have you ever run your NA on drag radials? I've had mine out for a play and found they definitely bogged down. Though I was running a stock clutch and didn't try and beat the hell out of it. Maybe it's worth trying some before you buy your own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil-NA Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 I can spin the T1Rs on the road in 1st and get a tiny bit in second (more of a chirp) What i dont want to do is spend £400 on some tyres that dont make much difference as the size i need means i would never be able o sell them on, atleast if i got the MT's they are a popular size so i could sell on easily. I will also point out the the backe end is full stripped and runs with next to no fuel on the strip so not sure how much weight will be over the tyres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I can spin the T1Rs on the road in 1st and get a tiny bit in second (more of a chirp) What i dont want to do is spend £400 on some tyres that dont make much difference as the size i need means i would never be able o sell them on, atleast if i got the MT's they are a popular size so i could sell on easily. I will also point out the the backe end is full stripped and runs with next to no fuel on the strip so not sure how much weight will be over the tyres. Softer suspension would make the weight transfer a little easier but I think that's probably getting a little too focused on the drag strip. What you are getting from your current tyres sounds about right, that's what I would expect to see from your car when the tyres are performing well. I honestly think that drags will slow you down. Concentrate on your launches and perfect the revs & timing to get the bad boy off the line. With a lot of practice at that, and tyres that are giving reasonable grip your times will plummet. Giving the tyres a larger rolling radius will upset everything that you have perfected. Whatever you plan on using make sure that's what you do your practicing on as going from x profile to y profile will change all the variables in your launch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil-NA Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Softer suspension would make the weight transfer a little easier but I think that's probably getting a little too focused on the drag strip. What you are getting from your current tyres sounds about right, that's what I would expect to see from your car when the tyres are performing well. I honestly think that drags will slow you down. Concentrate on your launches and perfect the revs & timing to get the bad boy off the line. With a lot of practice at that, and tyres that are giving reasonable grip your times will plummet. Giving the tyres a larger rolling radius will upset everything that you have perfected. Whatever you plan on using make sure that's what you do your practicing on as going from x profile to y profile will change all the variables in your launch. I have the j spec shocks on which seem as soft as I can get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I have the j spec shocks on which seem as soft as I can get. I'm saying softer but I don't really think that's what cuts it. I think the spring rates need to be soft with the dampening effect being hard or something. As I understand it this means the car is allowed to squat quite easily but when you come off the power for a gear change it won't jump up due to the dampeners being set on maximum restriction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRD DAN Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Have you had a recent geo setup ? , tyre pressures you run?? , and good burnout to get a bit of heat in the tyres would also help Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 neil was looking to purchase a line lock kit, im sure that will help the burn outs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil-NA Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 Have you had a recent geo setup ? , tyre pressures you run?? , and good burnout to get a bit of heat in the tyres would also help Dan I ran with between 25-40psi(dont ask) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 are you still going with NOS mate? to be fair I think most other NA guys respect your ET's. some people poo-poo the NA idea, it's like unless you've got 2x turbos an engine doesn't even start. just to let you know, my mate with a supercharged BMW 328i ran a time similiar to your best. That says something! Keep up the good work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GazB Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 You can practice all you like on street tyre and it will be of little use as when you put MT's on has the grip level is immense, far better than R888’s or any street tyre. You could then start playing with tyre pressures to perfect it even more. Whatever practice you do on normal road surfaces will not be duplicated when launching at the strip due to the greater grip levels. You will find that slipping the clutch as you launch will help your 60ft times, obviously this isn’t good for the clutch so be prepared for more bills. Transferring the extra traction forces will also put extra strain on the drive train components so again be prepared for even more bills. I’ve got a set of rims with R888 on that I used when I started drag racing the car, they helped but the lack of tyre wall also hindered my 60 ft times. The line lock will help you warm tyres but even that isn’t straight forward, warm to much and they overheat, not enough and your just wasting money for no gain. All a difficult balance. The big thing to remember is the better the 60 ft the better chance you have of running better times, practice will help achieve this. I’ve kept a log of all the information I gain after each run, from this I ‘try’ and figure out what to do next or what to improve. Good luck with it and remember practice and patience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil-NA Posted January 13, 2012 Author Share Posted January 13, 2012 You can practice all you like on street tyre and it will be of little use as when you put MT's on has the grip level is immense, far better than R888’s or any street tyre. You could then start playing with tyre pressures to perfect it even more. Whatever practice you do on normal road surfaces will not be duplicated when launching at the strip due to the greater grip levels. You will find that slipping the clutch as you launch will help your 60ft times, obviously this isn’t good for the clutch so be prepared for more bills. Transferring the extra traction forces will also put extra strain on the drive train components so again be prepared for even more bills. I’ve got a set of rims with R888 on that I used when I started drag racing the car, they helped but the lack of tyre wall also hindered my 60 ft times. The line lock will help you warm tyres but even that isn’t straight forward, warm to much and they overheat, not enough and your just wasting money for no gain. All a difficult balance. The big thing to remember is the better the 60 ft the better chance you have of running better times, practice will help achieve this. I’ve kept a log of all the information I gain after each run, from this I ‘try’ and figure out what to do next or what to improve. Good luck with it and remember practice and patience Thanks for the info matey. The problem i have had the last 2 times is i was using tyres that have gone off, hence me wanting better tyres, but as some of the guys have said its no point in getting the tyres if they are going to cause it to bog. Ideally i need to find someone who has used drag tyres on an NA before i go down that route. Mph on the runs has been fine, usually a good few mph above the other NAs but i have one of the worst 60fts at 2.35, i literally either bogged or span the tyres, anymore than 3500rpm and it span, any less and it bogged. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cossack Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 NA's shouldnt even be on this forum, they are not really supras! dont even look like a TT! they are dog****! set fire, i wouldnt waste the timber! the best thing i can say about my NA is that i dont even have to lock it when i leave it, lets face it, who the **** would wana steal it! its an NAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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