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Anything but an athiest.


Guigsy

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Hi all. Thaught i would hopefully post up something to spark a little debate this weekend. Or to make people think a little.

 

I know we have a great cross section on here. So figured it would be a good place to post this and get some opinions.

 

This is something quite close to my hear for several reasons.

Firstly, Im an athiest. I dont think god exists, i believe its silly to believe so. There is (in my opinion) no proof of anything in the bible and a lot of what the bible says is prety grim! But if you want to believe, thats fine. Just dont tell me im a worthless idiot for not thinking the same.

Secondly, My wife is american, and also an athiest.

 

First i need to add some background.

This country is thankfully VERY different to the usa on issues like this, you can tell your employer you dont believe in god without being fired or rejected buy your friends or family. Iv even seen stories of people being refused service in a take a way pizza place because they are an athiest.

The usa is a country of extremes, especialy on religion.

 

This might be obvious to some. But a lot of people assume they are christian if they were christened. Id like you to think before you watch what you believe, I believe its important to the topic. But its not the topic id like to raise in this post.

I was christned. I went to a christian school. payers and hyms every day. although i didnt actuly say prayers, just stood in silence. Im not a christian :)

 

Please watch this video, I know its 14 mins long. Id like your views on it. its thaught provoking and shows some quite incredible stories and (in my opinion) insane viewpoints from the USA.

Not all americans have these views but more than you would imagine do. its not like the BNP over here who are quite a small party people dont realy take notice of.

 

 

Lastly, This is a car forum after all and i know the mods are not overly keen on vitriolic religious debate. So can we please try and stay away from that.

Also, please dont just post saying "americans are idiots", someone always seems to say that when american is concerned. Its obviouly not true. And if you post that you have missed the point entirely! My wife and therefore all of my extended family are american, so your not doing yourself any favours by calling half of my family idiots! :)

 

l7xbwAmPXxU

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always said there are some dangerously opposing views on the forum on many many things. Im sure some surprisingly obscure views will come out on this, then an arguement about one specific religion will kick off and we will close the thread. I dont need a devine being to tell me that as I am omnipotent and have my own set of fanatical followers. There is only one God and one religion, mkivsupra.net is that religion....

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always said there are some dangerously opposing views on the forum on many many things. Im sure some surprisingly obscure views will come out on this, then an arguement about one specific religion will kick off and we will close the thread. I dont need a devine being to tell me that as I am omnipotent and have my own set of fanatical followers. There is only one God and one religion, mkivsupra.net is that religion....

 

Branners is thy god?

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Been christened and confirmed myself when I was about 14 as a favour to the god parents, never went again :). My mother is currently in a piss as my brother got engaged over Christmas and she was asking what church it will be in...oh dear...not going to happen, registry office. He was the same and never went again.

 

In my opinion people should find their own answers not just believe what their parents have imprinted on them. Saying that with Christianity if you take the three words "do unto others" and chuck aside everything else you will do well.

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tbh there have been some threads on here about belief in god and there where some unsavory views and comments on the matter, thats just people for you, different religious veiw points are never going to see eye to eye, the hate factor is the problem, any person of any religion that feels hate towards another is wrong in my view, a day will come when we all close our eyes for the last time, thats the day when you find out if the path you followed was correct.................

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Only in America :D

 

Jokes aside I work with people from the states & have been there for work last year, like you said it isn't everyone who is like that & I noticed it is mainly some (alarmingly quite a few) certain states to think very much like this. Those who are in this train of thought are stubbornness to anything outside this & see anything different to this as a threat.

 

I know exactly how you feel mate, though your lucky you have to mention what you believe, I have no choice :)

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I think it's quite an interesting movie... no real surprises in it for me though.

 

I'm not at all surprised by the way some Christians view Atheists. There are people like that over here too, but America does seem to have more of an extreme take on what an atheist is(or isn't).

 

I've told people here (UK) before that I'm an atheist, and they've looked at me as if I'm Satan himself lol. What I've found is that most religious people, just aren't willing to have a debate or even try and understand why I'm an atheist, they just plain don't want to talk about it and just avoid me from then on in. That's the thing I find most annoying about most religious people.... not the fact that they believe in God.... but their simple 'closed-mindedness' of "I am right, you are wrong" and the inability to have a discussion about it, or respect other peoples views because they are different from their own.

 

I totally respect other peoples wishes to believe in God (or whatever they choose to believe in).... but sadly as I've found with most religious people (definitely not all though), that it's often not a two-way street.

 

This video always makes me chuckle when I think about religion...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxEkwUMyDUc

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America is certainly very diverse,recently watched ;living with the Amish: very interesting though not for me.I wonder if we were to seperate religion from afterlife if it would be more believable.We are after all living on a ball of muck in the middle of nowhere in (we are told) and expanding universe,how unbelievable is that :)

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The northern Irish can't resist a topic about religion :D

I was brought up in a strong religious background, lots of going to church etc but in my experience the political baggage that it comes with living here has totally put me off - I stopped going when I was 16 (but still pretended to go, stood and smoked out the back with my mates lol).

I can see why people believe and why it gives them comfort when times are tough, but it's at the centre of all things bad in ni. On top of that, the recent revelations of systematic abuse against kids and complete failure to accept responsibility means that I will never go back to it and will also never encourage my kids in that direction. If they get to a point where they feel they want to go somewhere (whatever denomination) then fair enough, but I honestly believe that it's more important to show tolerance and treat people with respect in your day to day life rather than going along on a weekly basis to pay lip service

 

Edit, I watched living with the Amish too and thought it was fascinating, the lifestyle appeals to me but not really the religious aspect of it

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I find the whole concept of needing/having to be labeled as a particular religion/type rather strange, just being is my favored state, never felt the need for religion or needing to belong, i was brought up as Christian at school, sung the hymns, and was taught in religious studies, but only ever saw the content as stories, with nothing to back them up, my feelings toward religion are that its one of the lager causes of distress, disharmony and war in this world, not the only one granted, but a bloody big one none the less, which is one reason why i will never "believe"

in an "ethereal"l concept that can cause so much suffering,

apart from all the weird stuff like playing with rattle snakes in the name of faith:rolleyes: didn't mention America though, oops!:p

 

Oh! and i got bored after two minutes of that video.

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Devoted follower of the Church of Evertonia

Our Toffees,

Who Art in Goodison,

Cahill be thy name.

Thy kings shall come,

Thy Goodison won,

On turf by the best eleven.

Give us this day our Marouanne,

And forgive us our Nev-passes,

as we forgive those that Saha against us,

Lead us not into Anfield, but deliver us from Liverpool,

Amen

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one of the most interesting things to me is that for example if we are talking at work about religion, and i mention i dont believe in god, that im an athiest. People, in my expience, accept that as a viewpoint, as a belief that differs from theirs (or doesnt whatever the case may be)

 

Where as in america athiests are branded as the video shows, as trustworthy as criminals, have no morrels and are stupid. Next time you meet any of the people whose picutres are in film (if you get chance, they are probably off doing intelegent stuff ;) ), make sure to remind them. lol

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I must admit I'm pretty shocked with just how extreme the general public in America can be with their views. I have personally always thought that most Americans are very narrow minded, it just seems to be part of their upbringing. The minority in the US seem to be the free-thinkers which to me is unusual, but I'm guessing that trait isn't unique to the US and it's just because of my upbringing and my way of thinking that it seems so extreme to me. I've been to the US a few times and while for the most part the people we have met have been lovely they have been extremely naive to anything outside their little world. Even holding a discussion with them regarding anything outside their state seems to have them struggling. On the other side of the coin I've met some American tourists over the years, not the rich type with the khakis, and they have been pretty well cultured and very diverse in their knowledge and understanding (in my eyes anyway). The latter types being very much the refreshing minority that I mentioned.

 

I don't mean this as a slight on the American public, although it will be seen as an insult, it's mearly been my observation over the years from various encounters & scenarios.

 

I wonder what would happen if I said I was agnostic? My guess is I would get a lot of blank stares rather than the pitchfork and fire treatment :D

 

 

On a sidenote when I was in a bar in Florida there was a guy from Texas that was the soul of the party. He was jumping around having a ball of a time, making conversation with just about anyone and while being quite merry, he wasn't at all abusive or overly intrusive. He found out we were Scottish so the usual questions got asked, why aren't you Ginger, where is your skirt, etc. Anyway, he sat with us due to us being "real drinkers" and that Texan folks were the same, had a few shots of tequila and got to talking. There were a few gems that came up in conversation but one that really stands out is when we pointed to the TV and asked what it was. The guy got all excited as he wanted to show and tell us all about this fantastic piece of kit that they have in the US. He went on, and on, and on about it, very enthusiastic and as in detail as he could... as I say they are generally very nice people. Once he had finished I asked him who invented it as it's such a great bit of kit. Quick as a flash John Logie Baird was mentioned, still nothing. We asked where John Logie Baird was born.... and the penny finally dropped.

 

This particular guy whilst very nice, good fun to be with and very genuine was extremely naive IMO. The thing is that it didn't seem like an individual thing either, he came across as intellectual, well educated and his work took him all over the US making him very diverse in that way, yet his assumptions on what lives outisde the US whilst absolutely baffling, did not seem to be up for question as far as he was concerned.... it was common knowledge.

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I have believed for many years that when we die, we die. Nothing else, no heaven or hell just blackness. It occours to me as well that as we become more technically advanced we as a whole move away from god or the thought of an omnipotent being towards a realisation of our own mortality and the move towards scientific thinking.

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People should be completely free to believe in whatever they want, wherever they are or may live without any penalty :)

 

However, people should respect the religion of the nation they are in, wether they believe in it or not.

 

How does that work then? As in the UK for example? What exactly forms respect in your opinion?

 

Is that the huff and heavy breathing of Branners i hear in the background, poised over the "thread closed" button.:p

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How does that work then? As in the UK for example? What exactly forms respect in your opinion?

 

I suppose I really meant acknowledge as much as respect :)

 

I was really referring to the US, which is clearly a very christian nation in general. However, these people that get locked up in the middle east are a good example. They go into a Muslim country and go against whats considered to be acceptable (ie, frivolity/affection in public, not covering up etc), they deserve everything they get.

 

We're very fortunate in England, religious clashes seem to be minor and relatively rare, especially up here in York :D the closest thing we've had to a religious uprising was the local mosque getting their knickers in a twist because the council won't give them planning permission to put some ridiculous tower/spire up :D

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Not surprised that a good proportion of people are atheists or agnostic - most of the main line religions feed on fear in order to control the masses - they preach hatred, division and a cause of a lot of the worlds troubles over the past couple of millennia.

 

A lot of the "Holy" books have either been tampered with or conveniently interpreted in order to suit a political agenda and today at-least in modern "developed" societies where people do have the luxury and comfort to question (without being prosecuted) they quickly realise how disconnected these teachings are from their day to day lives.

 

That isn't to say that if we did away with religion we could all be free and better off, not necessarily so - every society needs to have a control system, its just that the most "successful" ones have been religion based.

 

As for the Video - one could certainly replace the word Atheist with Muslim and most of the ill feelings would be the same, identical or even worse - just a thought.

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Not surprised that a good proportion of people are atheists or agnostic - most of the main line religions feed on fear in order to control the masses - they preach hatred, division and a cause of a lot of the worlds troubles over the past couple of millennia.

 

A lot of the "Holy" books have either been tampered with or conveniently interpreted in order to suit a political agenda and today at-least in modern "developed" societies where people do have the luxury and comfort to question (without being prosecuted) they quickly realise how disconnected these teachings are from their day to day lives.

 

That isn't to say that if we did away with religion we could all be free and better off, not necessarily so - every society needs to have a control system, its just that the most "successful" ones have been religion based.

 

:yeahthat:

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