new mot laws

[dude]

Hardly any, and hardly any. The point was they don't force them to have washers on as standard, so it can't be that important.

 

Bike by there very nature will always dazzle as they squat so much at the back, bike also dont have front plates but thats no defence for a car not to have one !!!! Difference is if I drive into a bike with my Rangey I will break my front plate if I drive into you in your supra my airbag may go off and that costs money;)

[Graham1984]

Totally agree on the fog light side of things and it is harder to notice people braking in front of you, I use the same method of when you hit an accident and have fogs or hazzards on only if you are the last one in the que as it is not needed with 4 cars behind you.

[tbourner]

Actually Dude I don't know why I'm arguing, I agree with 90% of what you're saying. The only thing I disagree with is I believe there are diligent people out there who fit HIDs with the best intentions, and as long as they get them adjusted correctly, use the manual leveling when carrying loads and keep them clean then it's not a problem. Failing the MOT for cars with old reflector lenses is a great idea though. You disagree that manual leveling and no washers is not acceptable? So lets leave it there.

[Ian W]

You disagree that manual leveling and no washers is not acceptable? So lets leave it there.

 

Oooooorrr.....my DC2 has HID's as standard but only level manually and have no washers. Now what?

[dude]

Actually Dude I don't know why I'm arguing, I agree with 90% of what you're saying. The only thing I disagree with is I believe there are diligent people out there who fit HIDs with the best intentions, and as long as they get them adjusted correctly, use the manual leveling when carrying loads and keep them clean then it's not a problem. Failing the MOT for cars with old reflector lenses is a great idea though. You disagree that manual leveling and no washers is not acceptable? So lets leave it there.

 

Im just saying from experience of when my lights get dirty they dazzle oncoming cars but yes well set up they will dazzle a lot less than some BUT the supra I had behind the other day was dazzling a lot and they looked to be set up pretty well. So we can agree to disagree..............a bit !!!

[dude]

Oooooorrr.....my DC2 has HID's as standard but only level manually and have no washers. Now what?

 

I would imagine that everything before the date of the new regs will be fine if its factory fitted.

[Ian W]

I would imagine that everything before the date of the new regs will be fine if its factory fitted.

 

Certainly what I'm hoping. I don't see how they could enforce anything other than that.

[Stephen G]

I was wondering about cars that came with abs and now has had it removed..

[tbourner]

As far as I can tell they just check that the warning light comes on when the ignition is turned on, then check that it goes off after starting the car (indicating there's no fault). So if you can remove ABS and still get the light to work as it should then it'll be fine.

[dude]

I was wondering about cars that came with abs and now has had it removed..

 

They can only test it if its fitted !!!

[Stephen G]

They can only test it if its fitted !!!

 

That might be ok in the main land but the test in nortern Ireland is notorious strict. I was talking to a mate a few weeks ago that works in one of government test centers here and was telling me that if any bushes or c.v. joints boots are perished even if they are still tight or not leaking is a fail..

[garethr]

I was wondering about cars that came with abs and now have had it removed.

 

http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4s03000401.htm

 

3.4 Anti-Lock Braking and Electronic Stability Control Systems

If an ABS or ESC system has been intentionally rendered inoperative, the whole system must be removed. However, this does not apply to sensor rings or other ABS components which are an integral part of another component e.g. brake disc or drive shaft.

[imi]

use the manual leveling when carrying loads

 

Can you honestly see people doing that?

[tbourner]

Can you honestly see people doing that?

 

Erm... Yeah..... why wouldn't you? I spent at least 20 seconds setting mine to the correct level when I had 3 people in the back and luggage in the boot - ooh massive hardship!

[tbourner]

This looks like a good list:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/MoT%20-%20Issue%2052%20-%20Dec%202011.pdf

 

 

One point someone was asking about ABS being removed:

"ABS system component obviously missing"

 

As for HID, it does clearly say:

"Headlamp levelling or cleaning device inoperative or obviously defective (LED or HID headlamps only)."

Which still sounds like it's only tested if fitted to me.

[dude]

Just to try and clear this, just picked up a car from an MOT station so I asked and he said nothing at the moment on ECU's but ALL after market HID kits have to be removed for MOT, an FACTORY fitted HID kits with or without washers and levelling etc are ok. All new cars with HID will HAVE to have levelling and washers fitted by manufacturer.

[tbourner]

I've just had a reply from VOSA Operations Directorate, I'd asked 3 questions:

 

1) The biggest question seems to be over after market HID kits, do they require washers and auto-levelling to be fitted?

The first evidence that people come up with is the PEN:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/technicalpenpicture3-lighting.pdf

Which suggests “after-market systems should be required to meet the same safety standards as that applied in respect of these lamps at vehicle Type Approval. Therefore, in order to pass the MOT test, vehicles fitted with after-market HID systems would also need to be fitted with headlamp cleaning and self-levelling systems”, but then the MOT Inspection Manual:

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/repository/MOT%20Inspection%20Manual.pdf

Says that “...headlamps may be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self levelling system. Where such systems are fitted, they must work”, so the vehicle will only fail an MOT if the systems are there but don’t work, rather than if they’re not installed at all.

1) For legal advice on the fitment of HID kits I would advise to contact DfT and I've attached a link to a statement on their web site http://www2.dft.gov.uk/pgr/roadsafety/drs/hidheadlamps.html

From an MOT perspective the Inspection Manual (IM) applies to passenger vehicles and if presented for test with HID headlamps it will be tested accordingly.

However the IM does advise that it is not always possible to readily determine whether HID lamps are fitted and if there is doubt "benefit of doubt" should be given.

That DfT page is pretty old, suggesting the law hasn't actually changed from what it always was, legally you're in trouble for using aftermarket HID kits but has anyone ever been stopped by Police and told to remove them?

The MOT test is as it is in the inspection manual, so no real change to previous in that it only has to work if it's fitted. The problem is the perception of it among MOT testers has changed as shown by Dude above, which means you need to find one who's actually RTFM, or is nice and friendly.

 

2) Alterations to ECU maps or ECUs will fail?

I can’t find anything on official test documentation to suggest that ECUs will be tested in any way, yet people are claiming vehicles will fail if the ECU has been tampered with. Obviously there are a lot of modified cars on the roads with remapped ECUs, and some highly modified vehicles have new replacement ECUs.

The only relevant thing I can see is from the MOT Inspection Manual, which states “Repairs and modifications to vehicles must be assessed on their merits, taking account of the nature and function of the component. The main criterion to be used when assessing repairs is whether the repair is obviously likely to adversely affect the roadworthiness of the vehicle. In respect of modifications, the main criterion should be whether the modification has seriously weakened the component.”. This obviously suggests that 99% of ECU remaps and replacements will pass an MOT? There does seem to be a new rule about unsafe wiring, which I guess could be linked to ECU retrofits, is this maybe where the confusion is coming from?

2) ECUs will not be testable. The component criterion refered to only applies to those testable components which are specifically stated in the Inspection Manual. As ECUs are not stated there will not be a relevant reason for rejection (RfR). Section 1.9 does refer to an inspection of visible wiring but has very specific RfRs for damage or the likelihood of damage and exposed conductors. Modification to wiring would not be a failure unless it met the specific RfRs. Given the location of modern ECUs it is probable that the wiring will not be visible anyway.

So no problems with ECUs or remaps.

 

3) Modified suspension and/or wheels will fail?

This seems to be the same argument as above, again there are a lot of vehicles which would be put off the roads if they were to fail suspension and wheels that are different to OEM spec.

3) There are no new RfRs for modified suspension or wheels that differ from OEM.

However there is a new Method of Inspection (IM 2.4 A2) which refers to a suspension component for inappropriate repair or modification and has a corresponding RfR where the repair or modification has seriously weakened the component.

Again, no problems as long as the fitting is safe - so don't go hacking off the top of your spring to lower your car basically.

[dude]

The MOT guy was saying they and the police have access to all the data bases to determine what was fitted to what car as standard, he said the only prob was aftermarket HID kits and a slight strickening of the rules on some other things.

[imi]

Erm... Yeah..... why wouldn't you? I spent at least 20 seconds setting mine to the correct level when I had 3 people in the back and luggage in the boot - ooh massive hardship!

 

Aren't you a good Samaritan

 

Its not going to happen, to expect otherwise is delusional.

 

 

BTW: thanks for clarifying a few points with VOSA

[Guigsy]

All the wires and stuff for mine are hidden. And mot place friendly so should just be able to bung some normal bulbs in there.

 

Stock supra headlights are terrible. Especially now the council have turned off half the street lights.

Looks like I'll just be blinding people with my full beams to see where im going instead of dipped, properly aligned hid's...

 

If I hit a fox/dog/cat/deer/cow/discarded fridge/toddler/child/person on the now unlit dual carriageway (surrounded by residential houses), do I ask the council (street lighting) for money to repair my car or the mot people who won't let me use a decent bulb?

 

And what use are headlight washers? Who let's there car get so dirty that they need to use them because the lights don't work?

My daily hasn't been washed for over a month and it's fine.

The guy with the red uk spec on the last dragonball (sorry forgot your name) tried his for the first time ever in the euro tunnel. He didn't know how to use them and I think had owned the car for years!

 

And again, for supra owners, when was the last time you needed to level your headlights because of the weight of passengers in the back. Or the bags of sand in the boot. Oh yes. I remember the last time I had to do that. When I was towing my twin axel 6 birth caravan!

[dude]

All the wires and stuff for mine are hidden. And mot place friendly so should just be able to bung some normal bulbs in there.

 

Stock supra headlights are terrible. Especially now the council have turned off half the street lights.

Looks like I'll just be blinding people with my full beams to see where im going instead of dipped, properly aligned hid's...

 

If I hit a fox/dog/cat/deer/cow/discarded fridge/toddler/child/person on the now unlit dual carriageway (surrounded by residential houses), do I ask the council (street lighting) for money to repair my car or the mot people who won't let me use a decent bulb?

 

And what use are headlight washers? Who let's there car get so dirty that they need to use them because the lights don't work?

My daily hasn't been washed for over a month and it's fine.

The guy with the red uk spec on the last dragonball (sorry forgot your name) tried his for the first time ever in the euro tunnel. He didn't know how to use them and I think had owned the car for years!

 

And again, for supra owners, when was the last time you needed to level your headlights because of the weight of passengers in the back. Or the bags of sand in the boot. Oh yes. I remember the last time I had to do that. When I was towing my twin axel 6 birth caravan!

 

At the moment with the roads damp and salty I will have to wash the lamps at least 4 or 5 times in a 30 mile journey, if you read the link I posted you will understand why the light emitted from HID is totally diff to from a filament bulb and any dirt on the lens will send it in all the wrong directions, the MOT guy was saying its not just for MOT the old bill, at least in this area are cracking down and this is one of their bugbears, due to some accidents wher people said they were dazzled, as for not knowing he had headlight washers the man must have been a fool, at least someone told him he had brakes !!!

[Guigsy]

Well I'm just going to keep running down babies. I'm up to 3 now!

 

He knew he had the washers just never had the need to use them iirc.

[dude]

Well I'm just going to keep running down babies. I'm up to 3 now!

 

He knew he had the washers just never had the need to use them iirc.

 

I dont think anyone in this thread gets it, its not about you its the people you are dazzling coming the other way, if you cant see then go buy some UK glass lights, ive nevert had a problem with those, if they are too expensive then you cant afford the car, you manage to buy insurance etc.

[evinX]

I hate HID's. yes they look nice, should be for show use like underglow neons if you ask me, everytime theres a car coming in the oppostie direction i get dazzled and have to slow down, my windscreen is clean from both sides, i hate em. They might as well make strobe lights legal as they cause the same amount of distraction in the dark...(i like strobe lights!)

[garethr]

Just to try and clear this, just picked up a car from an MOT station so I asked and he said nothing at the moment on ECU's but ALL after market HID kits have to be removed for MOT, an FACTORY fitted HID kits with or without washers and levelling etc are ok. All new cars with HID will HAVE to have levelling and washers fitted by manufacturer.

Did he say where exactly the MOT manual says that aftermarket HIDs will fail, or was he relying on the general "dangerous modifications" clause? Just curious, because I can't see anything in the reasons for rejection that says "HIDs fail".

 

 

...One point someone was asking about ABS being removed: "ABS system component obviously missing"...

As already posted above, ABS removal is specifically mentioned in the MOT manual.

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?260666-new-mot-laws&p=3281012&viewfull=1#post3281012

 

http://www.motinfo.gov.uk/htdocs/m4s03000401.htm

3.4 Anti-Lock Braking and Electronic Stability Control Systems

If an ABS or ESC system has been intentionally rendered inoperative, the whole system must be removed. However, this does not apply to sensor rings or other ABS components which are an integral part of another component e.g. brake disc or drive shaft.

 

 

...no problems as long as the fitting is safe - so don't go hacking off the top of your spring to lower your car basically.

Also specifically mentioned in the manual:

2.4 Suspension - General

Information

Where a coil spring is incomplete, cracked or fractured at an extreme end where the spring locates on the spring mount, it should only be rejected if: · the function of the spring is impaired · following jacking, the spring ends do not locate correctly when the vehicle is lowered into the normal running position without assistance These criteria should also be applied to springs that have been deliberately shortened or modified in order to lower the suspension.