Kopite Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Thata why they shot him in the head 5 times I guess, no bombs there! i heard it was in the chest.... but again i didn't read it to be fair so i will stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Yep, a tragic mistake - by the guy that got shot. He refused to stop when challenged by police. In the current circumstances that action is foolish is the extreme and is clearly the reason he was shot and killed. I will be disgusted if the policeman is penalised for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted July 23, 2005 Share Posted July 23, 2005 Yep, a tragic mistake - by the guy that got shot. He refused to stop when challenged by police. In the current circumstances that action is foolish is the extreme and is clearly the reason he was shot and killed. I will be disgusted if the policeman is penalised for this. Maybe an illegal immigrant, maybe some other sort of criminal? Put yourself in his shoes, half a dozen plain clothed blokes chasing you with a gun. Maybe he didn't speak da lingo so didn't know what they were shouting? And as for the copper being penalised, don't worry that's a forgone conclusion, right or wrong he'll get off. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sakura Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Yep, a tragic mistake - by the guy that got shot. He refused to stop when challenged by police. In the current circumstances that action is foolish is the extreme and is clearly the reason he was shot and killed. People often react unpredictably in a panic situation. He didn't necessarily "refuse to stop". Can you be certain how you would react if you suddenly found yourself being chased by a gang of men - not immediately identifiable as police? With lots of shouting going on, who is to say he fully understood what was happening? If they really believed he had a bomb under his coat, why did they all pile on top of him and hold him down while shooting him 5 times? (Confirmed by eye witnesses on the train). If the police are going to start executing people because they look foreign and wear coats in summer, we really are in trouble. Today's reports are that he was a 27 year old Brazilian electrician, living and working here legally. The whole situation stinks of gross incompetence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoboblio Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 All IMO of course; Personally I think the police involved had to make a decision that no-one here would be willing / able to make (I stand to be corrected of course). The guy was wearing very suspicious clothing for the weather (especially the temperatures on the tube), and refused to obey police instructions. The police then had to treat him as a potential suicide bomber and kill him (yes it may sound extreme but shooting someone in the leg doesn't work like it does in the movies). They were juggling the life of one man against the possibility of hundreds more - I mean FFS the guy ran away from Police onto a tube train! If the policeman who shot him had been right and he HAD been carrying a bomb he would be an absolute hero, unflinching, willing to carry out his duty without hesitation etc etc etc. Just because a tragedy has occured does not necessarily mean someone is to blame. With the current environment in this country and London in particular this sort of thing is bound to happen - the police are trying to protect thousands of people in London (me being one of them), against an enemy they can't see until it's often too late. It's bad, it's tragic, it's sad etc etc etc... but is it the policeman's fault? Certainly not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSteve Posted July 24, 2005 Author Share Posted July 24, 2005 Nothing tragic about it. After all that's happened you'd have to be a bloody idiot for running away from armed police who were telling you to stop. Even tho he was innocent... I think it's done the world of good as now everyone knows the police aren't messing about no more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class One Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Maybe the whole lot of recent events tragic as they are, are the catalyst this country needs to turn the tide away from political correctness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 If they really believed he had a bomb under his coat, why did they all pile on top of him and hold him down while shooting him 5 times? I imagine they were trying to keep his hands away from his body to stop him detonating the bomb they thought he had. If the situation couldn't be made safe instantly the policeman had to make a split second decision. I applaud his bravery. I wouldn't like to be in that situation. If the police are going to start executing people because they look foreign and wear coats in summer, we really are in trouble. Oh come on. He would still be alive today if he had stopped when instructed to by armed police and not hurdled the ticket barrier and ran onto a tube train. In any country, if you don't comply with the instructions of armed police you are probably going to be shot dead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 (yes it may sound extreme but shooting someone in the leg doesn't work like it does in the movies). They were juggling the life of one man against the possibility of hundreds more - I mean FFS the guy ran away from Police onto a tube train! if i was shot in both my legs, i wouldn't be able to run very well! and i'd definately stop as well! the only other point i think that's bein missed was that he was initially runnin away from plained clothed officers, how did he know they weren't some vigilantes? it's not been confirmed how well this Brazilian bloke understood English. I think it was only later on that uniformed officers joined in wasn't it? If the policeman who shot him had been right and he HAD been carrying a bomb he would be an absolute hero, unflinching, willing to carry out his duty without hesitation etc etc etc. And Steve - you say it's done a world of good, would you be sayin that if this had been one of your mates who may have been doin somethin dodgy, panicked and legged it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sakura Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Oh come on. He would still be alive today if he had stopped when instructed to by armed police and not hurdled the ticket barrier and ran onto a tube train. In any country, if you don't comply with the instructions of armed police you are probably going to be shot dead. I agree. And I certainly wouldn't want to be in the shoes of anyone having to make the decision to shoot to kill. I am not a politically-correct do-gooder, and I accept that his actions caused him to be shot and killed. I still believe that 5 bullets in the head is an execution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoboblio Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 if i was shot in both my legs, i wouldn't be able to run very well! and i'd definately stop as well! You're right, you wouldn't be able to run. You would however, be able to use your hands to detonate a bomb - which surely was the whole point of him being killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 well i did say they could shoot them in the arms too lol. nah i mean i know that the police reacted and they probably did what i'd of done in that situation - BUT just thinkin along the lines of whether they'd shot someone i knew etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSteve Posted July 24, 2005 Author Share Posted July 24, 2005 And Steve - you say it's done a world of good, would you be sayin that if this had been one of your mates who may have been doin somethin dodgy, panicked and legged it? Don't know anyone dopey enough to run from the plod with guns like that. Is it true he was up to something dodgy then? He's lived in England for 3 years and was a sparky who spoke good English. Sure he understood "POLICE, STOP NOW!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 I've scan read a couple of pages, so if I repeat anyone, sorry... How on earth can anyone blame the Police?? FFS! How much bitching and whining would there have been if he was a terrorist? And HAD detonated a bomb cause the policemen had tried to restrain him, giving him time to press the trigger? The police are trained, shoot to kill, congrats to them, looks like our police are trained well! The utter rubbish about how many bullets were fired is beyond the point, I wouldn't care if they emptied the entire clip into him. They had to shoot him in the head as shooting him in the body could have blown up some explosives on a real bomber. And shooting in the arms... yeah right ...you go for the biggest mass available, the chest was out so the head is the next best target. The guy was living and working here, so how on earth he couldn't understand "Police, Stop" is beyond me! The guy had wires coming out of a utility belt by all accounts (ok so now we know he was an electrician, which makes perfect sense) but why did he run? Why did he vault over a turnstile to get away? If someone is chasing you with a gun and claims to be the police and there is an extremely high level of security following a load of terrorist activities - what do you expect? The police did the right thing. It's a shame the guy was innocent of being a terrorist...but he was obviously guilty of something... Judging by some of the ill informed comments on the BBC feedback pages etc I really do think some people live in a Sugar coated world ..."oh couldn't they have restrained him? Sat him down and councilled him, explained the errors of his ways and sent him on his way?" FFS... Anyone here suddenly developed telepathic powers?? Didn't think so...the Police don't have them either! EDIT - And spare a thought for those Policemen - not least the one that pulled the trigger - he'll have to live with that for the rest of his life...nice memories for him, from trying to serve and protect the public at large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 And shooting in the arms... yeah right ...you go for the biggest mass available, the chest was out so the head is the next best target. Alex - they had hold of him and he was on the floor before they shot him. BUT again if you read what i said above, i said i'd of probably done the same thing, i'd be thinkin differently though if it was someone i knew though! that's natural! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Fair enough... FWIW, I'd mainly been reading comments on the BBC sites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 must admit i stayed away from readin those because i can imagine them bein full of idiots. hindsight's a great thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Class One Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Alex, Good post mate, well informed and sensibly put. Police Officers who undertake firearms duties, volunteer to do so. The guys who were on that surveillance teams whould have been enhanced trained or known as Specialist Firearms Officers. They undertake vigorous training and screening. No gung ho Die Hard types, but professionals who are willing to make split second decisions knowing they the consequences of such means they maybe gripping the rail at No1 Criminal Court Old Bailey. The Police work by consent in this country. They require the co-operation of the Public in order to help them do the job that they volunteer to do. Times, though, they are-a-changing, as there are people who have demonstrated that they are willing to blow themselves up for some twisted cause. Not foreign insurgents, but British born persons. We are VERY lucky in this country to have the Police we have, unarmed generally, accountable and transparent. Go to France or Germany or Italy and gob off to a copper and see what happens. So to read, on this forum, about Police executions, and such other ill-informed and frankly appaling comments, frankly makes me beleive that in a way WE the people of this country are in some way to blame as to how it is these days. WE elect our Government, they dictate policy, WE pays the consequences. RANT OVER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 While I can see the police side of this, especially in the current climate and sympathise with the split second decision they had to take, to say that the Police in this country are 'Accountable and transparent' is I'm afraid utter bollocks in my opinion! You've been in the job too long mate :thumbdown Nothing personal but the general public are meant to believe this when countless cases of police wrong doing are swept under the carpet in many high profile cases. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Peace Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Would the Police of shot him if he was a white guy ????? I know he was Brazilian and to them had the appearence of being Asian. I'm sure there will be an inquiry of some sort...and none of us know the true facts...maybe the bloke running off didn't know he was being chased by the Police, maybe he thought it was some rival gang pretending to be Police..all sorts of scenarios..I doubt he knew they were going to shoot him... I know we have trained armed officers BUT...we have a short history of having an armed police force (or SO19) and MOST of em lack operational experience in my view..maybe we should stick em all in LA for a few weeks as part of their training.. Also Criminals here are not used to having Police guns pointed at them so in most cases are not likely to stop when being chased.. The Police were at fault here, they murdered someone...dosn't matter how its dressed up..i understand how its happened..and I dont think anyone should be charged given the circumstances but there are obviously huge holes in the training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeordieSteve Posted July 24, 2005 Author Share Posted July 24, 2005 Would the Police of shot him if he was a white guy ????? Yes... within a second. They are trained to kill anyone WHO IS OUT TO KILL PEOPLE THROUGH SUICIDE BOMBS! If a white guy was running away from a load of armed police, not stopping to their shouts of "STOP POLICE", away from a watched house after a fooking terrorist attack he'd be blown to bits mate. Don't turn this into a racial attack coz I'm sick of that excuse. He ran when he shouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 Oh fooking 'ell, leftie Green's playing the race card again..........'is it cause I'z black?' How's it going fella? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 it is partly racial steve as non white people are more likely to be muslim extremists. but i agree the racial card is played far too often. and i'm sayin that comin from an asian background. i've only had 1 racist attack in my life which is when i got my nose busted when i was 6 by some blokes. other than that i've never had any cause to even think of playin the racial card etc. EDIT: the whole issue is mainly religious, but in terms of suspects, asian and black people are more likely to be muslim! i don;t know if i'm makin any sense, im tired lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRoy Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 I havnt read all this thread but can anyone tell me what concrete evidence the powers that be have that the suicide bombers from 2 weeks ago are that? I mean I know that they were on public transport in London and were killed and met up together and were Asian and muslims but apart from that? No point to make just interested in what they have? Been too busy to take it all in:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopite Posted July 24, 2005 Share Posted July 24, 2005 do you mean what evidence do they have that they were suicide bombers Roy? and that they didnt just chuck the bombs on the trains? if so i think the only evidence is the cocked up ones this Thursday, the detanator blew up in the back of one of their rucksacks. other than that i dunno Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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