Trackday tossers - talking through the two minute silence

[Ian C]

So there was I at Snetterton on remembrance sunday, when we all came in off the track to observe the two minute silence. Throughout the whole thing one bunch of lowbrow gorillas carried on chatting away, having a right old jolly laugh and a joke. Disgusting and infuriating, but being on my own and there being seven of them, I didn't really feel like getting a kicking. I sensed this group thought with their fists rather than their brain.

 

Find attached a picture of their car. What a massive, colossal surprise the make and model was.

 

I figure if they have no respect then they deserve no respect so if that shiny expensive car is around at other track days, well, it's amazing how hard and far car doors can fly open, and how far brake fluid can spray under pressure, and how hard it is to see cars in the rear view mirror as you tootle round on a cooldown lap, and how easy it is to accidentally park blocking someone in while you wander off for a pie.

 

Oh, and here's the list of all the attendees if anyone feels particularly skilled in finding a name to go with the double-u-anchor attitude.

http://www.javelintrackdays.co.uk/trackday/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=249

 

[SupraDan24]

BMW drivers, say no more.

[johnny g]

Even though I've 2 BMW's. I have to say that on the whole, both BMW and (more so) Audi drivers really are the vermin on the roads

[Guigsy]

It's creeping into merc drivers now too. Not so much. But there are a lot of bell ends driving mercs now. Mostly the big fancy ones

[Gaz6002]

Even though I've 2 BMW's. I have to say that on the whole, both BMW and (more so) Audi drivers really are the vermin on the roads

 

Jazz1 may beg to differ

[peter richards]

nearlly had a full head on with a merc last week , coming out of the estate , the txxt was on the phone and the wrong side of the road , my van had stopped i was blasting the horn and flashing the lights , thinking here goes , he sees me right at the last minute and missed me by about an inch .

but we seem to have a lot of people who think they are something else here , ok its a new rstate , but as far as im concerned thats all it is

[chazuk]

Even though I've 2 BMW's. I have to say that on the whole, both BMW and (more so) Audi drivers really are the vermin on the roads

I have to agree , so does Clarkson :-)

[SupraAyf]

Even though I've 2 BMW's. I have to say that on the whole, both BMW and (more so) Audi drivers really are the vermin on the roads

 

I like the word 'vermin' to describe the average BMW driver, hence the reason why I would never have one on the drive.

 

Nice word though JG, I will use it more often.

[Charlotte]

Ugh. Some people really are retarded.

[peter richards]

i know you said you were on your own but surely the rest could of told them to shut the fxxx up

[staples230uk]

This is one thing that really winds me up! It doesn't take much effort to be quiet for two minutes for those who gave all they could give. I usually tell people off when I see them do it (after the two mins). More often than not they go really quiet when I'm informing them of their poor manners, probably it's due to the fact I'm in my number 1 uniform. Some people have no manners and repect. Hope you had a good track day though.

[Tannhauser]

So there was I at Snetterton on remembrance sunday, when we all came in off the track to observe the two minute silence. Throughout the whole thing one bunch of lowbrow gorillas carried on chatting away, having a right old jolly laugh and a joke. Disgusting and infuriating, but being on my own and there being seven of them, I didn't really feel like getting a kicking. I sensed this group thought with their fists rather than their brain.

 

Oh, and here's the list of all the attendees if anyone feels particularly skilled in finding a name to go with the double-u-anchor attitude.

http://www.javelintrackdays.co.uk/trackday/index.php?option=com_wrapper&view=wrapper&Itemid=249

 

 

I respectfully disagree with Mr. Chisholm on this one. I know this won't be a popular view, but here we go.

 

Firstly: If you feel strongly about a particular event, keeping quiet at a given time - that you haven't personally chosen - is only one way of showing your feelings. There are lots of other ways. You might feel that you would rather show your solidarity by, say, helping those remaining. With reference to other tragedies (not necessarily Remembrance Day), I know plenty of people who will happily observe a minute's silence - but that's all they will do. Try asking them to stick their hands in their pocket and actually do something, or give up a bit of time, and the empathy evaporates.

 

Secondly, it's an attempt to legislate and enforce grief and remembrance. What proportion of those in the minute's silence are actually thinking about the events in question? What proportion are waiting for it to end so that they can get on with what they're doing? And what proportion are glaring round looking for someone who is not observing the silence, so they can get angry about it? Grief and remembrance are spontaneous personal things that you can't force people into at an arbitrary moment. Nor should you attempt to - it's something that they come to in their own time. And maybe some never do, but that's their business, not anyone else's.

 

Thirdly, we've all been brought up to believe that a moment's silence for X,Y or Z is a mark of respect. Why this particular action, rather than anything else? What's the other collective action that involves keeping very still and quiet? It's prayer. There is an atheist objection to minute's silence that runs like this: separation of church and state, and a secular government, means that no one can force you into a religious observance. However, by calling it a 'moment of reflection,' and just announcing 'there will be a minute's silence', it's prayer sneaked in by the back door.

 

Fourthly, I can't help feeling that it's an exercise in conformity. Regardless of what your personal feelings are, this is the behaviour that's been adopted by the group, and my God, you'd better toe the line. Not doing so marks you out as a deviant, who does not share the in-group values, and therefore a legitimate target for anger and attack. I guess we like to take arbitrary - often nonsensical - behaviours, imbue them with meaning and then vent our wrath against anyone who refuses to do the same. I can imagine a parallel universe where everyone has to put on a top hat to mark some terrible tragedy, and anyone who doesn't is disrepecting the dead with his unspeakable hatlessness.

 

So essentially, my take would be this: if you want to mark someone's passing by standing silently at a pre-designated time: fine. But there is no law that says you have to, and there's no need to form some sort of grief police to make sure everyone else does. The assumption that they care less than everyone else is a dodgy one, for the reasons above. I'm dismayed to see Ian advocating some sort of retribution against people he doesn't know, for no other reason than his moral sensibilities are outraged.

[Benjy]

It's nothing to do with religion. It's a mark of respect. And as much as the country may no longer be "Great Britain", if it wasn't for those that did give their lives, my grandfather included, you'd be reading this in German!

 

Frankly, I agree with Ian, and pretty much everyone else to comment. And no, not every one will buy a poppy or make financial contribution, but having the respect to shup up for a whole, massive, never ending 2 minutes is the LEAST we can do to support our troops who are putting and have put their lives on the line for ALL of us. Over 10 years, that's not even half an hour!!!

 

If you really wanna help, or show support and 2 minutes silence isn't for you, I suggest you pick up a rifle, get on a plane and help out our boys on the front line, cos I know I sure has hell haven't got the balls to do it! Have you?

 

 

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[Attero]

Disrepectful. I was at an autotest event and every single person (over 100 people) were able to keep quiet and still for the whole two minutes.

[Benjy]

FURTHER MORE... I own an M3!!

 

 

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[j_jza80]

The silence is meant to be used to reflect on the actions and sacrifices of those who have given all to defend our freedoms.

 

What is 2 minutes, when over half a billion people died during ww2 alone?

 

It can be argued that people can show respect in any way they choose. However, talking during the silence is disrupting others freedom to show their respect.

 

IMO citing personal freedoms and not showing respect for our heroes is a total hypocrisy.

[Graham1984]

I do agree that silence is not for everyone but what is a few moments of your life to just think about anything even if it is not directed at war heroes and even just your own loved one's that are not here among us or just a bit of self reflection on our own lives in general.

I don't think it has anything to do with conforming or religion but why can't we just be grateful that we have the freedom to live our lives the way we want without fear and all because a lot of men and women that have and still do provide us as a nation with our own safety blanket when quite frankly their are so many of us that do not deserve it and ignorantly think our freedom is a personal god given right to act like di**heads.

There are so many people that do not deserve anything like all the protesters burning poppy's and shout cr*p at returning soldiers just because they have that right provided by the people they abuse.

I bet if we all had to do national service the views of many would be a lot different than the pig ignorant attitude we as society have now.

[Chris Wilson]

No talking at Oulton, I am surprised someone didn't have a word with them, whatever the odds. People have strong feelings about Remembrance Day and all it implications, there are some squaddies who would probably have found it hard not to have made their views clear to them, one way or another. Disgraceful. It may be an odd tradition to a few people, but there are some things one just doesn't do. like farting in church, wearing brown shoes in the City, or giving Tannhauser the Mail to read

[Rob]

Got to agree with Tannhauser there. I wouldn't be all chatty and noisy in a place where people were observing the 2 min silence, but I did not observe it myself in my own home. I read a lot of books about the various wars we have had, visit museums, I've been to war graves in the Somme, and I reckon in the past year alone I have spent a greater amount than 2 minutes thinking about those that gave their lifes and thanking them for my freedoms now. I don't feel the need to conform to an enforced prayer.

[Tannhauser]

A storm of protest and a lot of foaming at the mouth, but not much in the way of argument. I thought this was a good point, though.

 

It can be argued that people can show respect in any way they choose. However, talking during the silence is disrupting others freedom to show their respect.

 

This goes to the heart of the matter:

 

IMO citing personal freedoms and not showing respect for our heroes is a total hypocrisy.

 

Another way of looking that is that it's pretty ironic to be remembering those who died to preserve freedom, and in the same breath effectively saying that the people who are saved can't have the freedom to observe or not observe a particular tradition.

 

Arguments about length of time it takes etc irrelevant.

[Septic]

Tannhauser- always giving food for thought. Excellent points there.

[marbleapple]

I respectfully disagree with Mr. Chisholm on this one. I know this won't be a popular view, but here we go.

 

You seem to be implying that the group of people having a laugh and giggle were acting that way as some sort of moral demonstration. I think you give their actions and thought process more credit than is due.

 

Irrespective of views re minute silences, I think the 'goons' have a lack of respect. You may not agree with other people's choice of action/view but you need not spoil their experience or appreciation of the moment. I.e. the goons could go off to another area and play with each other should they not be able to stand for a few minutes silence with the rest of the group. Their actions negatively impacted the moment for the rest of the group that wanted to take part in it.

 

You wouldn't light up next to a group of your work colleagues when you know they don't smoke and hate smoke... one would presume that you would show a degree of due consideration. Those goons appear not to have any.

 

People seem to like this 'lets have free will' idea however it seems to me that someone's 'free will' always comes to the detriment of others. I would much prefer to have a degree of fixed social and moral obligations to minimise the chance of others minipulating the situation for their own benefit. We are greedy and selfish, if we don't have social and moral standards and obligations then in my opinion society will just degrade into a free for all. I personally hate the ECHR and European Convention (and blame it for a lot) but we won't go there....

 

I make no comment re destroying someone else's property save as to say that I don't advocate it and it could being the person down to the level of the goons.

 

As for standing for minutes silences, I prefer the option of a minutes applause. I choose to appreciate the heroic actions of people of my past and present, its an important part of our history. My view on 'anti' minute silence/applause people is that if you don't want to join in then fine, but please don't try impose your views on me... just go off and stand with the goons.

[Benjy]

Prayer is religious. Talking to "the big man upstairs". Not having the decency to keep your mouth shut when everyone else is observing a silence to reflect, not pray, is just rude and ignorant.

 

None of us are saying you MUST observe it or you don't deserve freedom, but at least shut up for those that do. If you're at home, or in the car, or having a dump, be as loud as you like, but when a track full of people who have paid a fortune to put their car around a track, stop their cars, and everyone else observes the silence, just have the decency to shut the frick up!

 

And people do abuse their freedom. And if national service came back and the choices were fight or go to prison, I'd tell them to lock me up, cos I'm not fighting to give our country full of migrants, drug addicts, hippies, rioting little scum bags and anyone else that takes the piss freedom! Our troops are, and they're pretty much doing it in vain. So the minority of us that still are "great british" citizens should be pretty ashamed not to have the decency to shut up, while those of us that do care take at least 2 minutes once a year to just think about the troops that have been and are brave enough to protect ALL of us!

 

 

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[marbleapple]

Prayer is religious. Having the decency to keep your mouth shut when everyone else is observing a silence to reflect, not pray, is just rude and ignorant.

 

None of us are saying you MUST observe it or you don't deserve freedom, but at least shut up for those that do.

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You basically said in a few lines what I was trying to say in a few paragraphs! Good post.

[Benjy]

Lol I thought that about yours!

 

General concensus is - Ian C, you're right mate. They could have dragged their knuckles to somewhere else and had their jollies!

 

 

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