Ross C Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 It works the same way as brackets. It seperates the two different sums. If it was all connected then it would be 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinlexusV8 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 ' ' not a '(' How much is ' ' + 5 then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 It works the same way as brackets. It seperates the two different sums. If it was all connected then it would be 15 Exactly. I was trying to think of a decent working example but I could only think of crappy ones reguarding peoples pay lol. 1+1+1+1x0 = 3 1 + 1 + 1 + 1 x 0 = 0 With the spaces it becomes singular operations for each equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinlexusV8 Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Space is a neither a number nor a binary operator ... it never becomes part of an equation ... EOD ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTRickeh Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 Space is a neither a number nor a binary operator ... it never becomes part of an equation ... EOD ;-) +1. Space means nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Space is a neither a number nor a binary operator ... it never becomes part of an equation ... EOD ;-) It doesn't become PART of an equation, it seperates the equation. Each step in the original question is a seperate equation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinlexusV8 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 What is the answer to this then? 5+2 ................................................................................................................................................................................................x3 -5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseys Posted November 11, 2011 Author Share Posted November 11, 2011 Bodmas ftw You Sir win a cookie! We had quants programmers arguing about this at work with java and APL people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 What is the answer to this then? 5+2 ................................................................................................................................................................................................x3 -5 I wasn't thinking of anything quite as mental as that. More... 5+2 x 5-2 Your answer would be 13, mine would be 21. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Just shows how much we rely on computers now, and how many IT chaps there are here, that anything other than 0 is being discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross C Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Me and Scott are on the same wavelength but this could be argued about for months coz everyone has their own opinions on how its done. I hated maths in school and really cba with the hassle. 0 for the win Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Just shows how much we rely on computers now, and how many IT chaps there are here, that anything other than 0 is being discussed. That's my take on it really. I can see how it can be mistaken as being 15 but I can't see the true answer being anything other than 0, due to the way the equation is presented. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinlexusV8 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I know how you are like from some of our other discussions on this forum ... so I have to go to this length to clarify things equation. +, -, X are binary operators. They need to have some integers (positive or negative numbers) on both sides to perform the operation. You cannot have a space infront of X and say that it is should be treated as ')'. There are loads of other characters any symbols. What about a newline character, like in my example above. There is a reason why there is BODMAS and there is reason why there is no 'BOD MAS' (with space as operator). SPACE in an equation equals NULL or Nothing, or else a statement with ' ' becomes an invalid statement. To make things even more clear substitute ' ' with another character say 'p' then see how the above statement is INVALID (5+5+5-5+5+5-5+5pXp0). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I know how you are like from some of our other discussions on this forum ... so I have to go to this length to clarify things equation. +, -, X are binary operators. They need to have some integers (positive or negative numbers) on both sides to perform the operation. You cannot have a space infront of X and say that it is should be treated as ')'. There are loads of other characters any symbols. What about a newline character, like in my example above. There is a reason why there is BODMAS and there is reason why there is no 'BOD MAS' (with space as operator). SPACE in an equation equals NULL or Nothing, if not it is an invalid equation. To make things even more clear substitute ' ' with another character say 'p' then see how the above statement is INVALID (5+5+5-5+5+5-5+5pXp0). Everything you have just written is computer logic orientated though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinlexusV8 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I dont think it is the problem with the wavelength to be honest ... It has only one answer if it is a mathematical statement (not an english statement) and it is 15. Dont add common sense from english to maths ;-) ' ' does not mean wait for the previous part of the statement to compute and then continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTRickeh Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 Me and Scott are on the same wavelength but this could be argued about for months coz everyone has their own opinions on how its done. I hated maths in school and really cba with the hassle. 0 for the win There is no opinion in math There are rules. The rules say it is 15. IMO 'x' shouldn't be used as a symbol for multiplication. If it was in brackets like it should be then I don't think we would be having this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 There is no opinion in math There are rules. The rules say it is 15. IMO 'x' shouldn't be used as a symbol for multiplication. If it was in brackets like it should be then I don't think we would be having this discussion. Exactly, the rules state that brackets should be used (if required) and spaces shouldn't. However, in this case the rules aren't being adhered to so opinions can be formed on the structure of the equation and the answer it totals. IMO the answer is zero for the reasons I have given. The following equation isn't formatted properly... 5+4 x 4-1 It SHOULD be (5+4)x(4-1), or (5+4)*(4-1) if that's what you prefer... or X lol. Using common sense if you were presented with 5+4 x 4-1 you would most likely give the answer 27. If you wanted to be pedantic you could point out that the person who wrote it used the wrong syntax and that there should be brackets in it or else it will be taken as 20. Of course there would be no argument whatsoever if the equation was laid out properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attero Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I agree with everyone. Here are some scenarios: Answer from Google = 15 (it follows BODMAS) Answer from Calculator = 0 (it doesn't follow BODMAS) Answer from the following Javascript code in HTML = 15 <br /> document.getElementById('answer').innerHTML = 5+5+5+5+5+5+5+5*0;<br /> Had the list 5's been wrapped in brackets, the answer would have been 0. I personally would have said 0 to start with, but I have to go with the computing instinct and say 15 here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinlexusV8 Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 The title of the thread says 'Basic maths ...' so the maths rules prevail Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I agree with everyone. Here are some scenarios: Answer from Google = 15 (it follows BODMAS) Answer from Calculator = 0 (it doesn't follow BODMAS) Answer from the following Javascript code in HTML = 15 <br /> document.getElementById('answer').innerHTML = 5+5+5-5+5+5-5+5*0;<br /> Had the list 5's been wrapped in brackets, the answer would have been 0. I personally would have said 0 to start with, but I have to go with the computing instinct and say 15 here. That isn't the question though. The question is 5 + 5 + 5 etc, not 5+5+5. With the latter the answer is obvious, it's because of the cunning (or stupid) use of the spaces that throws it all out of the norm. It doesn't follow any of the basic rules for a maths equation right from the off hence the debate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTRickeh Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I agree with everyone. Here are some scenarios: Answer from Google = 15 (it follows BODMAS) Answer from Calculator = 0 (it doesn't follow BODMAS) Answer from the following Javascript code in HTML = 15 <br /> document.getElementById('answer').innerHTML = 5+5+5-5+5+5-5+5*0;<br /> Had the list 5's been wrapped in brackets, the answer would have been 0. I personally would have said 0 to start with, but I have to go with the computing instinct and say 15 here. You would have got 15 from your calculator if it was a scientific one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attero Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 That isn't the question though. The question is 5 + 5 + 5 etc, not 5+5+5. With the latter the answer is obvious, it's because of the cunning (or stupid) use of the spaces that throws it all out of the norm. It doesn't follow any of the basic rules for a maths equation right from the off hence the debate It's the same if you added spaces. Whatever you do, it will always bring back 15 without brackets. I thought it was 0 aswell, but you can't argue with the mathematics of programming, otherwise the world would be a very messy place right now. I am I misunderstanding it? You would have got 15 from your calculator if it was a scientific one. Yeah I used the basic Windows one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 It's the same if you added spaces. Whatever you do, it will always bring back 15 without brackets. I thought it was 0 aswell, but you can't argue with the mathematics of programming, otherwise the world would be a very messy place right now. I am I misunderstanding it? With the spaces in the rules are broken though, if it still works then it's because the computer is dropping them assuming user error. I'm now wondering if I'm perhaps giving the original "mastermind" behind this riddle too much credit. Perhaps they were just some plum who put 1 + 1 instead of 1+1 lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 I've never heard of spaces being used to enforce operator precedence. If they were my hand-written equations would be in serious trouble. I'm firmly in the BODMAS camp. BODMAS isn't a computing thing, it's a maths thing. Any calculator worth its salt will follow BODMAS: the Windows calculator in basic mode doesn't follow it, but does when in scientific mode IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethr Posted November 11, 2011 Share Posted November 11, 2011 it's 15, and Google agrees with me. It would have to be (5+5+5-5+5+5-5+5) x 0 to produce zero. It's nothing to do with computers. When I was taught that brackets and multiplication and division took precedence over addition and subtraction the Lyons Leo III was cutting edge technology. (EDIT: Anyway, even if we were talking about computers, the code to parse a maths expression would ignore the spaces.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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