ManwithSupra Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 That is so outstanding an acheivement you now have to change your user name to "Carbon $#@!" How do you cut/drill the finished panel? I'd imagine frayed edges if normal methods are used. Cheers mate it should equate to a descent weight saving, so far parts have been between 50-80% lighter then the originals. The cutting side of things can be done two ways. For manual cutting I use a dremal with a Perma-Grit cutting disc, this has a edge kind of like a tile cutting blade, this stops any fraying or chipping. For manual drilling, well its a bit harder, I drill a smaller hole first (which does chip and splinter slightly) and then get a small rotary sanding wheel (on the end of the dremal) to enlarge the hole to the desired size. I have not seen a drill bit with a perma grit stile tip... that would be awesome... The second method I have at my disposal is using a High speed cutting head on a CNC machine that I have access to. CNC would be better, but for these hand cut panels its easier and quicker to do it manually. When I start to make more precise items (like door hinges) these will be CNC'd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrosixfour Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Is the CNC free to use, as in you yourself have access to it and costs a minimal amount to use? If not and you're paying for someone's time then have a look and see if there is anyone offering a water jet cutting service in the area, it might be worth comparing costs on a similar piece. I have a company local to me that offers this service but I've never approached them for a quote as I've never had anything that needed such accuracy or specialist cutting methods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrosixfour Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 My finger slipped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted April 24, 2014 Author Share Posted April 24, 2014 Is the CNC free to use, as in you yourself have access to it and costs a minimal amount to use? If not and you're paying for someone's time then have a look and see if there is anyone offering a water jet cutting service in the area, it might be worth comparing costs on a similar piece. I have a company local to me that offers this service but I've never approached them for a quote as I've never had anything that needed such accuracy or specialist cutting methods. Yeah the CNC will be free to use as my dad owns a small company specializing in prototyping. He has a CNC Lathe and a 4 axis CNC router which is pretty handy for doing the more complicated parts which need more precision. I will keep the water cutting thing in mind though in case I don't have access to the machine in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrosixfour Posted April 24, 2014 Share Posted April 24, 2014 Yeah the CNC will be free to use as my dad owns a small company specializing in prototyping. Ah sure you're on the pig's back there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted April 27, 2014 Author Share Posted April 27, 2014 Right so today I cut out and made the Air filter heat shield out of carbon fibre. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79394850/IMAG0362.jpg I didnt get any of me cutting the parts out but here is one of the new cover vs the old cover. At this point I had not added the mounting tabs but had just bonded the two parts together using permabond ET500 structural adhesive, this is what I will be using on all the carbon panels in the car rather than having them rivet https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79394850/IMAG0366.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79394850/IMAG0367.jpg This is a test fit for the oil breather catch pot mounting. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79394850/IMAG0368.jpg This is it fitted https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79394850/IMAG0372.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79394850/IMAG0374.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79394850/IMAG0376.jpg Now that's done I will be moving on and making the Intake Tube out of Carbon fibre as well. With regards to the major interior carbon work, once I have all the panels made and cut ready to go I will show the pictures of the interior being converted over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Brilliant work again. Looking forward to seeing the transformation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Amazing results on the carbon work, especially given thats it's a DIY venture. Was this just trial and error or do you have a background with CF production? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted April 27, 2014 Author Share Posted April 27, 2014 Amazing results on the carbon work, especially given thats it's a DIY venture. Was this just trial and error or do you have a background with CF production? Cheers I don't have any background with CF production no but got a lot of help and advice from people in the know, also bought a number of books on competition car composites so have done a lot of research. So far it seems to be working well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 That looks great matey, well done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Cheers I don't have any background with CF production no but got a lot of help and advice from people in the know, also bought a number of books on competition car composites so have done a lot of research. So far it seems to be working well So you have mastered flat sheet carbon. I see your looking to do the intake pipe/tube next? Will you use your current pipe as a template? I'm very interested in seeing how you master more complex shapes. Undoubtably the oven will assist. Please excuse my total ignorance, but I see that you have to vacuum the carbon to make it properly bond/strengthen. How will this work with an oven? Or is the oven at a very low temperature? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted April 27, 2014 Author Share Posted April 27, 2014 So you have mastered flat sheet carbon. I see your looking to do the intake pipe/tube next? Will you use your current pipe as a template? I'm very interested in seeing how you master more complex shapes. Undoubtably the oven will assist. Please excuse my total ignorance, but I see that you have to vacuum the carbon to make it properly bond/strengthen. How will this work with an oven? Or is the oven at a very low temperature? With regards the more complex shapes like tubes you have to use a split mould method and then bonding the two parts together. There are other ways of doing tubes but the finish is never very good unless you spend serious money on milled metal bladder tooling moulds. I will be using the existing pipe yes, however its got to undergo a fair amount of prep before it is good enough to use as a mould as there are a lot of surface imperfections which would be transferred to the new part which is never good. The oven is only there to increase the working temp of the carbon fibre, if you have not post cured the part then the resin will start to sag if it get exposed to heat which will make the part deform, this only happens once as this kind of post cures the part. If you post cure a part at 80'c for 4 hours it will increase the resins resistance to heat dramatically and will not sag when it gets hot. Once you have pulled a vacuum on a mould then you clamp off the vacuum lines so the composite remains in vacuum, then once the mould has cured for around 24-36 hours you put the mould into the oven and increase the temp to around 60-100'c depending on what the application will be. The materials, moulds, bagging film, gum tape, lines etc are all high temp items so can be used in temps of plus 100'c if need be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 With regards the more complex shapes like tubes you have to use a split mould method and then bonding the two parts together. There are other ways of doing tubes but the finish is never very good unless you spend serious money on milled metal bladder tooling moulds. I will be using the existing pipe yes, however its got to undergo a fair amount of prep before it is good enough to use as a mould as there are a lot of surface imperfections which would be transferred to the new part which is never good. The oven is only there to increase the working temp of the carbon fibre, if you have not post cured the part then the resin will start to sag if it get exposed to heat which will make the part deform, this only happens once as this kind of post cures the part. If you post cure a part at 80'c for 4 hours it will increase the resins resistance to heat dramatically and will not sag when it gets hot. Once you have pulled a vacuum on a mould then you clamp off the vacuum lines so the composite remains in vacuum, then once the mould has cured for around 24-36 hours you put the mould into the oven and increase the temp to around 60-100'c depending on what the application will be. The materials, moulds, bagging film, gum tape, lines etc are all high temp items so can be used in temps of plus 100'c if need be. Sounds time intensive and fraught with opportunities to mess up. However, the end results speak for themselves. Look forward to seeing the intake pipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted April 27, 2014 Author Share Posted April 27, 2014 Sounds time intensive and fraught with opportunities to mess up. However, the end results speak for themselves. Look forward to seeing the intake pipe. Yeah its a learning curve for sure, however preparation is the key here, just like spraying a car the end result is only as good as the amount of preparation first. It is time intensive but the more time you put in to preparation the better the result and the easier the process will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 All the materials needed to make the mould of the Intake pipe have arrived as well as the kit to do the scuttle panel Should be a fun but messy weekend I am also going to change all the flat floor panels under the car and the rear diffuser with carbon except the center panel which will be kept Aluminum due to the amount of abuse it gets and the fact it gets really ... really hot with it being a blown diffuser design. All the under body work will be spread tow carbon... its pretty resistant to high impact and it looks pretty funky too... not to mention nice and light. http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/images/products/large/Spread-tow-carbon-fibre-plain-weave-25mm-in-hand.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 All the materials needed to make the mould of the Intake pipe have arrived as well as the kit to do the scuttle panel Should be a fun but messy weekend I am also going to change all the flat floor panels under the car and the rear diffuser with carbon except the center panel which will be kept Aluminum due to the amount of abuse it gets and the fact it gets really ... really hot with it being a blown diffuser design. All the under body work will be spread tow carbon... its pretty resistant to high impact and it looks pretty funky too... not to mention nice and light. http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/images/products/large/Spread-tow-carbon-fibre-plain-weave-25mm-in-hand.jpg Looks like a chess board. Wouldn't a smaller compact weave material be stronger than the chess board stuff? Is cost a factor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Looks like a chess board. Wouldn't a smaller compact weave material be stronger than the chess board stuff? Is cost a factor? There isn't much of a difference to be honest between the strength of this and the smaller weave. The strength of a carbon part is down to a number of things such as how you lay multiple layers of different type of carbon weave in different directions, the method you use to apply pressure and heat and the type of core if any you will use. As these panels are not structural parts therefore the strength of the part is not critical, that said the carbon panels are stronger and stiffer than the aluminum panels they are replacing. This type of carbon is actually slightly more expensive than the 2/2 twill. Edited April 30, 2014 by ManwithSupra (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chazuk Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Nice work mate , a friend in aerospace design had some carbon with sandwich centre looked like honeycomb he reckons its super strong no flex could be worth a look . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted April 30, 2014 Author Share Posted April 30, 2014 Nice work mate , a friend in aerospace design had some carbon with sandwich centre looked like honeycomb he reckons its super strong no flex could be worth a look . Cheers mate I am using Lantor Soric SF 2mm core in the panel work I have been doing, this has a honeycomb core and is designed for resin infusion. It makes the panels very rigid and also reduces the amount of consumables needed when infusing the part as it acts as a transport layer for the resin as well. http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/Images/products/large/lantor-soric-2m.jpg There is also Aluminum honeycomb core however this is for things like Carbon monocoque http://www.easycomposites.co.uk/images/products/large/aluminium-honeycomb-064.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemanhead Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 honeycombing is all very well....until its dented. That dent will crush the aluminium below it, thus losing structural integrity. Then requires drilling, coring, filling and then the skin replaced. I'd probably avoid using it externally anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrosixfour Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Honey. mmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luxluc Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 The attention to detail is amazing mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted May 5, 2014 Author Share Posted May 5, 2014 (edited) Didn't get a chance to do too much this weekend with the carbon work as ended up helping a fellow track nut, corner weight and setup his geo on his car https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79394850/IMAG0397.jpg The only thing I did manage to do is progress with the preparation of the mould plug for the Scuttle panel. It still needs a bit of work to get it ready for paint but I will continue with that during this week. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79394850/IMAG0405.jpg https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/79394850/IMAG0403.jpg Edited May 5, 2014 by ManwithSupra (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted May 8, 2014 Author Share Posted May 8, 2014 Did a bit more scuttle panel prep last night. This time in filler primer to help with the surface finish. Wont be long until I can get make this into a mould, its taking a while but then the better this plug is the better the end result will be. Again this will be a carbon part with no fiberglass backing it will have a 2mm lantor honeycomb core as with the standard panels so it be interesting to know the weight difference between this and the plastic part. I will be using ultra light 90g/m² carbon for this to maximize the weight difference. I am also doing the Carbon Turbo intake tube at the moment but as the original tube is pretty messy its also taking an age to smooth it out and make it suitable for a plug, I figured that a picture of the scuttle panel would be more interesting than that of a tube :d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stonkin Posted May 8, 2014 Share Posted May 8, 2014 Loving these carbon updates, keep the pics coming Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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