mwilkinson Posted May 17, 2014 Share Posted May 17, 2014 I assume with your carbon scuttle, given that it's for a track car, that there is no need for the vents for the heater system. I noticed this being an omission of Paul Whiffin's scuttle carbon scuttle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted May 17, 2014 Author Share Posted May 17, 2014 (edited) Correct, although adding a couple of vents would not be hard to change on the design Edited May 17, 2014 by ManwithSupra (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toofattodrive Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 ManwithSupra, I have noticed that your supra has a flat floor. Does it increase the performance of your car, both in terms of top speed and the cornering stability? How does it affect the engine bay temps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) ManwithSupra, I have noticed that your supra has a flat floor. Does it increase the performance of your car, both in terms of top speed and the cornering stability? How does it affect the engine bay temps? I would say that the benefits of the flat floor is noticeable at speed (over 80mph), the car feels nicely planted when going around a high speed bend such as fordwater at Goodwood (high speed long bend 100+mph), when it comes to top speed (terminal) any additional downforce will decrease your top speed in a straight line, however on a track it would make you quicker say compared to other cars without the downforce as they would struggle with grip levels in the corners. Engine bay temps are not really any different to what a normal Supra is, in fact the heat management may be a little better. Edited May 19, 2014 by ManwithSupra (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 Did a little more over the weekend, Added the first layer of Fiber Glass and Coupling coat. Then after 4 hours I added 4 layers of heavy Glass fiber with the Tooling Resin, I didn't get any pictures of doing this as the working time of the resin is only 15 mins before it starts to get hot and cure, so had to work really fast in order to get all the layers of Glass fiber down. This is the end result It should have fully hardened now (as I did this on sat) so tonight I will trim up the edges and get on to the 2nd half of the mould which is basically the exact same thing as what you do with the first, I wont document that as I will only be repeating myself. Once the other side is at the same stage then I can finally get on and make the Carbon tube..:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted May 19, 2014 Author Share Posted May 19, 2014 Trimmed and demoulded the first half tonight. After a quick clean and removal of some of the filling wax it looks to be a good base for the next part of the process. I have also applied some release agent tonight ready for the next half of the mould to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest toofattodrive Posted May 20, 2014 Share Posted May 20, 2014 I would say that the benefits of the flat floor is noticeable at speed (over 80mph), the car feels nicely planted when going around a high speed bend such as fordwater at Goodwood (high speed long bend 100+mph), when it comes to top speed (terminal) any additional downforce will decrease your top speed in a straight line, however on a track it would make you quicker say compared to other cars without the downforce as they would struggle with grip levels in the corners. Engine bay temps are not really any different to what a normal Supra is, in fact the heat management may be a little better. Many thanks for your comments. Whilst I understand that any additional aero indeed decreases the top speed I would assume that a flat floor would not have this effect as its role is to accelerate the speed of air under the car by removing obstacles of free air flow. Please let me know if I am mistaken. Would you mind elaborating on the heat management and the beneficial effect of the flat floor? I have read conflicting opinions about this very issue. Some people say that the flat floor limits the air flow in the engine bay as the air has no way to escape. Also, many commented that the exhaust system will get extra hot as the flat floor limits the amount of air that cools the exhaust. Any thoughts on that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 Quick update, OK so done the other side of the mould, added gelcoat, then coupling coat and then the 4 layers of Fiberglass and waited for it to cure, then I drilled the securing holes, trimmed the mould and then split it. It came apart very well However on splitting the mould I found that somehow the paint on the pipe had shriveled (probably due to the heat of curing) This obviously caused an issue with the surface inside the mould and after inspection I found that I will need to do some minor repairs to the Gelcoat once I have done those repairs I will flat back the surface and polish again in order to get a good finish. As you can see on the left hand side there are some marks on the inside of it. I have cut the Carbon fabric to size so as soon as I have finished sorting the mould I will be able to make the tube. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrosixfour Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 So how is the hollow structure within the carbon pipe maintained while the resin cures, is the an inflating bladder or something holding the carbon layers against the inside of the mould? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 So how is the hollow structure within the carbon pipe maintained while the resin cures, is the an inflating bladder or something holding the carbon layers against the inside of the mould? Yes, the mould will be going into a resin infusion vacuum bag, the same method used for doing the panels After that is done the parts will be post cured, trimmed and then the two halves bonded together with structural bonding epoxy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 I can understand it being fine for the air filter pipe as it's not under any pressure. But would that work for a boost pipe? Would the pipe take 2+bar without leaking or blowing apart at the join? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrosixfour Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Yes, the mould will be going into a resin infusion vacuum bag, the same method used for doing the panels After that is done the parts will be post cured, trimmed and then the two halves bonded together with structural bonding epoxy. Ah, I see, I thought the pipe would be formed as a single piece using the mould halves together, I was struggling to understand how the structure would be maintained, hence the question about the bladder adding positive internal pressure within the closed mould haves. The two halves method joined after make much more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted May 27, 2014 Share Posted May 27, 2014 Just been catching up with this amazing Project, I have the upmost respect for you with the amount of work you have put into this. Most would have just been happy with a track focused car but you have looked at all the minor details and did a lot of proactive work to make it such an amazing machine! I'd love to attend a track day with you, although mine is full fat, I am sure you could give me some pointers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) I can understand it being fine for the air filter pipe as it's not under any pressure. But would that work for a boost pipe? Would the pipe take 2+bar without leaking or blowing apart at the join? This method is not good for boost pipes no, Low pressure pipes using the two part construction is fine, boost pipes really need to be made as a single piece, either woven carbon sleeve or the use of quasi-isotropic carbon fabric using a roll wrapping method and the use of wax plugs for the shape instead of traditional moulds, this is so the material can be applied externally rather than in a negative of the original part and the wax is there so when you post cure the wax melts out leaving the carbon part. I will be looking to doing the boost pipework a bit further down the line but I need to make a rig to accurately test the pressures up over 2-3 bar. I have some ideas about doing this and how long I will need to test the parts for to make sure they are useable. Edited May 27, 2014 by ManwithSupra (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 (edited) Ah, I see, I thought the pipe would be formed as a single piece using the mould halves together, I was struggling to understand how the structure would be maintained, hence the question about the bladder adding positive internal pressure within the closed mould haves. The two halves method joined after make much more sense. You are actually talking about a mould system which they use for making carbon tubes but its a slightly different approach. Bladder mould give really good results and are used to make carbon fibre bike frames etc. usually the tooling is all made of aluminum rather than FG. Edited May 27, 2014 by ManwithSupra (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted May 27, 2014 Author Share Posted May 27, 2014 Just been catching up with this amazing Project, I have the upmost respect for you with the amount of work you have put into this. Most would have just been happy with a track focused car but you have looked at all the minor details and did a lot of proactive work to make it such an amazing machine! I'd love to attend a track day with you, although mine is full fat, I am sure you could give me some pointers Cheers would be up for doing a track day for sure.. Happy to offer any advice where I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted May 28, 2014 Author Share Posted May 28, 2014 After repairing the Tube mould I started putting the barriers on the scuttle panel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 Scuttle panel mould almost finished, just needs a polish and then I will start to make all the outstanding carbon bits. I thought I would finish the current moulds first and then I can do a big carbon making session. For the intake tube I have had to use a high temp resin, looking at the temp indicators on the old pipe it was shown there was radiant heat of around 80'c this is the upper limit of the standard IN2 resin, so I will be using high temp 180'c resistant resin for this application. I have also Ordered Syvecs new WiFi telemetry unit for the ECU, this means no more messy cables which makes things a little easier and quicker.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BavXoTrHKY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveR Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I love this project! Watching for more updates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 Started on measuring up the flat floor to be replaced with Carbon, was thinking about extending it out to fill the parts under the OEM side skirts. This was just a piece of carbon I had laying about to give you an idea. Yay or Nay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideexitsupra Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Yay. Looks good, just like a Ridox skirt........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 Yay. Looks good, just like a Ridox skirt........ Ah thats the one, I remember there being one which was similar style to the OEM but with the panel in the middle section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveR Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 Yay. Looks good, just like a Ridox skirt........ +1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedrosixfour Posted June 9, 2014 Share Posted June 9, 2014 I'd definitely run with that at the very least. Quick question though, would there be any gains to be seen regarding increased down force & minimised drag by shaping the skirt extensions downward to keep whatever air flowing under the car from escaping before the back wheels? I know it's a lot more work, but that doesn't seem to have deterred you so far! How about looking into extensions that aid with heat loss from the front brakes, like so: http://www.themotorreport.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/tripleeight-teamvodafone-holden-v8supercars-02.jpg Or, if you'd REALLY like a challenge: Actually, no d!cking about, just get it done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManwithSupra Posted June 9, 2014 Author Share Posted June 9, 2014 I'd definitely run with that at the very least. Quick question though, would there be any gains to be seen regarding increased down force & minimised drag by shaping the skirt extensions downward to keep whatever air flowing under the car from escaping before the back wheels? [/Quote] Yep, Although I wont be changing the side skirts from how the look currently (apart from bringing out the flat floor to fill the cutaway in the OEM sides), I will be adding a long fin running down the underside of each of the sills from behind the front wheels to aid with keeping the fast air under the car rather than escaping out of the sides. I know it's a lot more work, but that doesn't seem to have deterred you so far! How about looking into extensions that aid with heat loss from the front brakes, like so:[/Quote] I haven't thought of that, will have to have a think. Or, if you'd REALLY like a challenge: http://www.bmwcoop.com/wp-content/images/2012/03/2012-BMW-M3-DTM-racer-1.jpg[/Quote] Lol - thats a little too extreme - but I like it Actually, no d!cking about, just get it done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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