Alex Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Originally posted by Chris Wilson Alex: No, no new toy. Getting withdrawal symptoms now, need a speed fix urgently It's nice having a wodge of money in the bank, but I'd rather have another toy Was hoping to have found something interesting that wouldn't depreciate too much by now, but it ain't happened yet. How about a Porker Supercup car for a bit of fun! I hear Porsche's don't depreciate that much! You could bomb round in it till you found the right car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Originally posted by Alex Holdroyd How about a Porker Supercup car for a bit of fun! I hear Porsche's don't depreciate that much! You could bomb round in it till you found the right car. I'm sure it would be GREAT fun, but my budget doesn't run to Porsche Cup cars as a temporary run around I'm afraid My 740 estate is my current run around:cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Originally posted by Chris Wilson I'm sure it would be GREAT fun, but my budget doesn't run to Porsche Cup cars as a temporary run around I'm afraid My 740 estate is my current run around:cool: I wasn't meaning, use it to nip down the shops in!!! I mean't to rip around the track...anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon F Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Originally posted by Chris Wilson Alex: No, no new toy. Getting withdrawal symptoms now, need a speed fix urgently It's nice having a wodge of money in the bank, but I'd rather have another toy Was hoping to have found something interesting that wouldn't depreciate too much by now, but it ain't happened yet. How about one of these?? I worked on this one at the Daytona 24hrs in 98 and 99. Best sounding racecar I have ever heard!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 9, 2003 Share Posted February 9, 2003 Originally posted by Gordon Flynn How about one of these?? I worked on this one at the Daytona 24hrs in 98 and 99. Best sounding racecar I have ever heard!! Nice, but prefer the Lola, and the Judd V10 sounds just fine to me Judd V10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted February 9, 2003 Author Share Posted February 9, 2003 Chris, You have email. Darren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Now I thought the biggest restriction to hybrids was the exhaust manifold? It doesn't flow enough so the EGT's go up too high before the hybrids reach the edge of their efficiency map? Surely the cost of buying, installing, and mapping an aftermarket ECU to sequential twin operation would not be offset by the little gain in return? No higher boost or anything due to the manifold restriction, maybe some faster spooling or low down response or something thanks to sorting the ignition timing? I'm all in favour of ECU's for any single setup, as it's so wildly different to the stock design, but hybrids? As I'm interested in taking hybrids as far as possible while still remaining non-handgrenade, enlighten me Also, I dread to think how much that Lola costs if you think it's "very expensive"!! This from the man who says a good big single conversion on a Supra would be £20,000 if done properly and that's quite a bargain... -Ian edited not for spelling, for once, but to make more sense... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Originally posted by Ian C Now I thought the biggest restriction to hybrids was the exhaust manifold? It doesn't flow enough so the EGT's go up too high before the hybrids reach the edge of their efficiency map? Surely the cost of buying, installing, and mapping an aftermarket ECU to sequential twin operation would not be offset by the little gain in return? No higher boost or anything due to the manifold restriction, maybe some faster spooling or low down response or something thanks to sorting the ignition timing? I'm all in favour of ECU's for any single setup, as it's so wildly different to the stock design, but hybrids? As I'm interested in taking hybrids as far as possible while still remaining non-handgrenade, enlighten me Also, I dread to think how much that Lola costs if you think it's "very expensive"!! This from the man who says a good big single conversion on a Supra would be £20,000 if done properly and that's quite a bargain... -Ian edited not for spelling, for once, but to make more sense... The main problem is the exhaust housing size of the stock sequentials is very small to promote very low RPM spool up. Simply put, if you buy hybrids the compressor housing and wheel may be bigger and more air flow will be created, but if there is then a bottleneck formed by the turbine (exhaust) housing size of the turbos, this gas can no longer efficiently leave the head. The turbine (cast iron) part of the housings are unique and specific to the MKIV TT family of engines and as such cannot be changed, although the compressor side can, or at least has enough material within for machining. A 92-10 Lola is for sale at Simpson Engineering down south, circa 100,000 UK I think. Jane refuses to live in a tent, so short of a lottery win, there it stays, as far as my input will allow... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 So it's the turbo impeller housing that's the bottleneck and not the manifold? Bugger. Nothing that can be done with those, then? Are you agreeing that the exhaust flow out of the head through the turbos is the basic bottleneck once you've got a hybrids system? So an ECU would really only be icing on the cake sorta thing? And if I spent 100,000 quid on a second hand car it would have to weigh at least four tonnes so I thought I got my money's worth, not some unpainted GRP thing I could carry home under my arm Perhaps you could compromise, have the car, and live in the bathroom? -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Originally posted by Ian C So it's the turbo impeller housing that's the bottleneck and not the manifold? Bugger. Nothing that can be done with those, then? Are you agreeing that the exhaust flow out of the head through the turbos is the basic bottleneck once you've got a hybrids system? So an ECU would really only be icing on the cake sorta thing? And if I spent 100,000 quid on a second hand car it would have to weigh at least four tonnes so I thought I got my money's worth, not some unpainted GRP thing I could carry home under my arm Perhaps you could compromise, have the car, and live in the bathroom? -Ian The manifold is also a restriction, but the real bugbear is the turbo housings themselves which would impossible / mega expensive to have cast in a larger size. I have tried most mental gymnastics to think of ways to buy an exotic race car, all have had "snags" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Hear that? That's the sound of CW typing up a new pricelist! expect a 15% price hike! Someone put a couple of mega car conversions his way so he can fleece you. Only joking...CW's above that sort of thing...well the fleecing anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Originally posted by Chris Wilson The manifold is also a restriction, but the real bugbear is the turbo housings themselves which would impossible / mega expensive to have cast in a larger size. I have tried most mental gymnastics to think of ways to buy an exotic race car, all have had "snags" Are there any other small turbo's that could still be used with the sequential setup? Obviously it would require there to be a manifold available for the supra I presume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 As far as I am aware, no. The castings used are unique to this setup. Anything can be made, but you'd be talking more than you'd pay for a late Supra TT just for the patterns and unmachined castings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted February 10, 2003 Share Posted February 10, 2003 Originally posted by Chris Wilson As far as I am aware, no. The castings used are unique to this setup. Anything can be made, but you'd be talking more than you'd pay for a late Supra TT just for the patterns and unmachined castings. Well somebody should bloody well make some I think I am the same as a lot of people on here, I like the sequential setup and don't fancy going big single. I would just like the best setup on hybrids possible, thats still a lot of power for on the road... Now where's that lottery ticket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 I agree a nice set of Garrett 25`s or something alike would be great but the manifold to be made from scratch would prob cost around 1000 quid on its own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Guys don't be left thinking that Hybrids don't work by this thread as they certainly do. There are limitations which are obvious, but it has been proven that 500 bhp can be made on them. The lastest ones that Leon is selling have some very trick wheels. Ian has made some nice safe figure recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Would this be the new stage 4 hybrids? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Indeed...... Give him a call 01908 367100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Originally posted by Ian C So it's the turbo impeller housing that's the bottleneck and not the manifold? Bugger. No, not really. They are both as bad as each other. This can be realised when you have actually tried it. We have fitted GT2510's to a standard manifold with machined plates to mount them and the inlet/outlet/downpipe made to match. There really isn't that much to be gained. Not for the cost v power equation anyway. Like Terry says, good cars can still be made using the hybrid route but I personally wouldn't get involved with trying to squeeze the factory manifold/turbo/sequential setup more than about 450bhp. Regards, Nathan TDI PLC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 11, 2003 Share Posted February 11, 2003 Originally posted by Nathan No, not really. They are both as bad as each other. This can be realised when you have actually tried it. We have fitted GT2510's to a standard manifold with machined plates to mount them and the inlet/outlet/downpipe made to match. There really isn't that much to be gained. Not for the cost v power equation anyway. Like Terry says, good cars can still be made using the hybrid route but I personally wouldn't get involved with trying to squeeze the factory manifold/turbo/sequential setup more than about 450bhp. Regards, Nathan TDI PLC Agreed, Toyota did a good job of matching all the turbo side very well indeed for the intended output and usage. Going beyond a hybrid compressor size increase is cost INeffective, better to bin the sequentials and decide to alter the character of the car altogether for high power output a bit further up the RPM scale. i still say the commonest mistake with road driven turbo car mods is to go TOO big on the turbo sizing, you need mid range punch, not high rpm ultimate power. People need to try a road car with a really big turbo(s) to see how useless they van be in every day driving. Area under the power curve is king. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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