Tyson Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Link ? I love a good read http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?256203-Falken-fk452-rubbish!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 I've touched on this before so thought I'd raise the issue again that there is clearly a very serious design flaw with the Supra. Namely that the back end can kick out under normal driving, as many people have further confirmed in this very thread, often initiated by the auto-kick down. In the many years I've been here, there have been constant crashes all caused by the rear end going and never the fault of the driver. It seems very odd that Toyota never had any recalls about this, given that in recent years they had a massive issue with a lot of their cars with the accelerator jamming open. Although in that case, despite Toyota doing work on hundreds of thousands of cars, it was widely accepted that there was no fault at all, and it was in fact the drivers hitting the wrong pedal and then jumping on the bandwagon rather than admit their own mistake. In the crash on Motorway Cops there is a clear disparity between Littlenum's description and the chap on the telly. If littlenum was driving normally and hit ice, spinning off, rolling his car, totally destroying it and putting himself in hospital, how come he was the only car? No one else did that. When I see those YouTube videos, usually in America, of icy roads, there is car after car shunting, sliding off, ending in a mass pile up, its awful but you can see how the conditions have caused such carnage. The witness chap was quite vociferous, now I appreciate when a loud exhausted "racing" car comes past, people will jump to conclusions but he did seem to be saying littlenum roared past overtaking on the sliproad and went out into the middle lane before losing control. Littlenum says nothing of the sort happened, so that's quite a difference in story. TV companies are notorious for bigging up storylines to make good telly, so maybe they were lucky in collaring the greatest BS'er on that stretch of motorway and he made the whole thing up. Although, he's got nothing to gain in doing so, he's not paid for his words on telly. Its no skin off his nose to say something like "the car in front, I hadn't noticed him before as he was doing nothing odd, just suddenly span out and crashed. Its awful that this can happen to anyone like that." Anyway the point being, if Littlenum was driving normally, touched some ice and destroyed his car, putting himself in hospital, there is clearly something drastically wrong with the design of the Supra. Yet now in 2011, no one in this club has put any thought into it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Similar thing happened when I went off roading. Warm day, few damp patches and sensible driving and I ended up down an embankment and that was an NA lightly on throttle. Granted it was on a gradual corner but it should never of span so easy. Given it is a bit late now for Toyota to address the issue but I'd also like to look into what makes them so snappy. Correct me if I'm wrong but they had similiar issues with the MR2? Ideas of what the problem was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaky Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Try an old ford capri 3 ltr Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Already have done. A concrete slab in the boot sorted that out no problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 The MR2 will snap if you push it, there's no way it will let go like that during normal driving though. Never had the supra even think about twitching on me either, in all sorts of weather, other when I have been naughty with the loud pedal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guigsy Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Driven supras for 5 years now. Back end has never stepped out when I hadn't expected it to. It will on a wet road but it's always been quite progressive. The kickdown never caused this it wad my right foot and the turbos. I wonder how many bone stock cars with factory geo setting and wheels with good rubber have this "defect" I did get very sideways in a soarer once though. But that had big wheels with stretched rubber and some camber. So not really a surprise when you think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOW Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 The most 'dangerous' car I've ever owned was my first, a 1976 Vauxhall Chevette 1300. That was rear wheel drive, no ABS, no traction control, no servo brakes, and was a death trap waiting at every opportunity. I spun it a few times during cold/damp conditions, and learnt to drive quite gingerly after that, so having a hugely more powerful rear wheel drive car with the traction off, I just keep the speed/acceleration down when I'm not certain of the road conditions. I spun this car once when I first got it in those types of conditions, but that was more worn tyres than anything else. Anything can happen at anytime, so as long as you expect the unexpected and drive to the conditions, then it's up to someone else to ruin your day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merckx Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 The back end of mine has stepped out twice, once on a roundabout and again on a 40mph road when building my speed back up from some lights. I've always taken it easy in such places and was very surprised to say the least , 18" with good tyres at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Anything can happen at anytime, so as long as you expect the unexpected and drive to the conditions, then it's up to someone else to ruin your day. Brilliant bit of advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 I used to have the rear end step out regularly, mine's na auto with 18's. It's alright when you're expecting it but not so much fun when you're on your way home from work in traffic. I put it down to tyres - I ditched the budgets and always go for brand name now (p-zero's mainly, although I like conti sport contacts too) and I don't have the same problems any more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty71 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 lol at the illegal number plate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 The witness chap was quite vociferous, now I appreciate when a loud exhausted "racing" car comes past, people will jump to conclusions but he did seem to be saying littlenum roared past overtaking on the sliproad and went out into the middle lane before losing control. Littlenum says nothing of the sort happened, so that's quite a difference in story. TV companies are notorious for bigging up storylines to make good telly, so maybe they were lucky in collaring the greatest BS'er on that stretch of motorway and he made the whole thing up. Although, he's got nothing to gain in doing so, he's not paid for his words on telly. Its no skin off his nose to say something like "the car in front, I hadn't noticed him before as he was doing nothing odd, just suddenly span out and crashed. Its awful that this can happen to anyone like that." Anyway the point being, if Littlenum was driving normally, touched some ice and destroyed his car, putting himself in hospital, there is clearly something drastically wrong with the design of the Supra. Yet now in 2011, no one in this club has put any thought into it. Good point Rob but we have a few factors to consider, RWD cars in the wet & snow are sometimes a handful full spot (not teaching you to suck eggs here just point it out). A number of factors contribute to this but the main ones being the tyre widths, weight, driver reaction. When a front wheel drive loses control it is much easier to control, again a couple of factors here again, weight, being FWD so being easier to control & in most cases less speed. The witness stated that the car went past him on his right whilst he was on the slip road which normally is always the case as you are on a slip road joining the motorway. He then said that the driver went into the middle lane with no disregard for other drivers (I assume then he cut someone up). Then obviously loss control & hit the bank. The witness was clearly disgusted & had already made assumptions about the driver with just seeing the car (stating that the driver would be more concerned about the car than other people). I am not defending anyone here (ok, maybe a little) but what if it was just a simple case of the driver going over ice on the road & then causing the car to lose control? We can clearly see some ice on the rear spoiler & the police officer did say it was a very cold\frosty night. Oh & my old TT auto hardly ever stepped out, maybe once or twice & that was with me pushing it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 I personally think its nothing to do with the car but several other factors. Driver not allowing for poor rd conditions, ice, snow, standing water etc (usually all are fairly obvious and you should drive accordingly) Driver being caught out by less obvious poor rd conditions, diesel, black ice etc (not so easy to deal with but if its cold expect black ice and if its a bus route or truck route expect diesel spills) Driver ability (too many think they are driving gods) Cheap tyres (too many running cars on too tight a budget) Tyres that are on the wear limits (as above) Incorrectly inflated tyres (simply lazy, when was the last time you checked yours ? ) Incorrect suspension geometry or seized worn out parts (poor maintainance by owner or again running a car on pennies rather than pounds) Blaming the car in my opinion is a cop out as all of the above are the drivers responsibility Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Good point Rob but we have a few factors to consider, RWD cars in the wet & snow are sometimes a handful full spot (not teaching you to suck eggs here just point it out). A number of factors contribute to this but the main ones being the tyre widths, weight, driver reaction. When a front wheel drive loses control it is much easier to control, again a couple of factors here again, weight, being FWD so being easier to control & in most cases less speed. The witness stated that the car went past him on his right whilst he was on the slip road which normally is always the case as you are on a slip road joining the motorway. He then said that the driver went into the middle lane with no disregard for other drivers (I assume then he cut someone up). Then obviously loss control & hit the bank. The witness was clearly disgusted & had already made assumptions about the driver with just seeing the car (stating that the driver would be more concerned about the car than other people). I am not defending anyone here (ok, maybe a little) but what if it was just a simple case of the driver going over ice on the road & then causing the car to lose control? We can clearly see some ice on the rear spoiler & the police officer did say it was a very cold\frosty night. Oh & my old TT auto hardly ever stepped out, maybe once or twice & that was with me pushing it. He said he overtook him on the slip road itself and then pulled out into the middle lane. My best guess is when he hit the white lines whilst changing lanes it caused the car to lose traction and let the back end "step out" and the rest as they say is history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purity14 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Ive never met Little Num, or the police officer, or the witness. The witness - seemed rather angry at life, boo-hooing about his children in the car, and that the car had strange equipment in it. IMO the witness wanted to sensationalize the whole incident and whip it up into something more extravagant than it actually was. The Police Officer - His mouth began talking. He seemed a nice guy, if a bit dim. Standard Policeman, doing a bit of Tyre checking for the camera and telling us the goings on. IMO because the car wasn't suitable for the wife and kids to go shopping in, he didn't believe it to be suitable for the road. Little Num - I haven't heard his version of events. IMO, he made an error resulting in losing control, if he could go back in time he would have made adjustments accordingly. He will be more careful next time i'm sure, a lot of us wish we could go back and change a few silly driving mistakes we have made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 a lot of us wish we could go back and change a few silly driving mistakes we have made. How very true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitz Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Just watched this on iPlayer. The witness didn't seem to think much of Littlenum's driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOW Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Just watched this on iPlayer. The witness didn't seem to think much of Littlenum's driving. The witness was jealous, right up until he crashed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 He said he overtook him on the slip road itself and then pulled out into the middle lane. My best guess is when he hit the white lines whilst changing lanes it caused the car to lose traction and let the back end "step out" and the rest as they say is history. Again, if the white paint used on every inch of our road network by the DoT, local councils etc, is causing accidents, someone needs to be told. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignum Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Ive never met Little Num, or the police officer, or the witness. The witness - seemed rather angry at life, boo-hooing about his children in the car, and that the car had strange equipment in it. IMO the witness wanted to sensationalize the whole incident and whip it up into something more extravagant than it actually was. The Police Officer - His mouth began talking. He seemed a nice guy, if a bit dim. Standard Policeman, doing a bit of Tyre checking for the camera and telling us the goings on. IMO because the car wasn't suitable for the wife and kids to go shopping in, he didn't believe it to be suitable for the road. Little Num - I haven't heard his version of events. IMO, he made an error resulting in losing control, if he could go back in time he would have made adjustments accordingly. He will be more careful next time i'm sure, a lot of us wish we could go back and change a few silly driving mistakes we have made. My thoughts exactly mate, spot on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 I have just told the wife I recently sold a secondhand gearbox to a man on the TV, she is, for the moment, impressed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmaw Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Just watched this on iPlayer. Still available to view? Link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trinitom Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Still available to view? Link? i'm looking too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty71 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 link http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b008s14x/Motorway_Cops_Rulebreakers_and_Risktakers Note the title, Rulebreakers and risktakers............... (supra from 6 mins in) Sorry but pure driver error Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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