CanisLupus Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 This just confirms what i decided this year (for me anyway), no more "going for it" on tourist days, i`ll book a trackday there for pushing it laps. I aggree... always leave a secure margin to the limit. Apparently the corvette was rented:blink: Oh sh... poor guy if he has to pay the damage oO Just to add. I really think it is a big irresponsibility to leave bikes and cars together on the ring. It just can't work out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I've never liked the concept of it at all. On proper track days people are grouped by ability (or self-perceived ability) and there are marshalls all round. Any cock-ness and you're removed from proceedings. Chucking any number of people of all abilities and vehicles onto a historically lethal track is just idiotic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4packet Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I understand that, but I honestly can't see anyone going there and not knowing the risks involved. You'd have to be pretty damn special to do that. I don't get all this campaigning to make it safer. Just don't be an idiot and you'll be fine I don't entirely agree with this. There are many people travelling to the 'ring with no track experience whatsoever. They just tag along with mates or car clubs. If you turned up to a trackday you would be briefed on all the many rules and actions to be taken in certain circumstances. For a track with next to no marshalling, high speed, multiple blind sections, varying level of skill and widely different speeds of cars/bikes, the least the organisers can do is make all newbies watch a quick safety briefing video. Overtaking etiquette would be a start (compulsory attendance for the ring taxi too!). With a turnover of 150,000 Euros on a TF day they should really be doing more to proactively protect their future and not just billing the punters when it goes wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubbyTwo Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 ouch, thats going to be expensive for all involved!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignum Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I don't entirely agree with this. There are many people travelling to the 'ring with no track experience whatsoever. They just tag along with mates or car clubs. If you turned up to a trackday you would be briefed on all the many rules and actions to be taken in certain circumstances. For a track with next to no marshalling, high speed, multiple blind sections, varying level of skill and widely different speeds of cars/bikes, the least the organisers can do is make all newbies watch a quick safety briefing video. Overtaking etiquette would be a start (compulsory attendance for the ring taxi too!). With a turnover of 150,000 Euros on a TF day they should really be doing more to proactively protect their future and not just billing the punters when it goes wrong. Nicely put mate.very true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Anyone read the blog? Bloody good points. My favourite being, people turn up with the wrong attitude & some advice given on forms: "Oh yeah, lap tickets are only $10 each" "The track is open every day" "You HAVE to go under 10 minutes to beat Jeremy Clarkson" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanisLupus Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Some of the Ring Taxi drivers ain't much better than some of the "newbs". Lots of nearly accidents and showing of in the wrong moment... An educational Video or training would not be a bad thing but there still will be show offs and people that overdo. And bikers... I love riding motorcycles but i just hate them on the ring... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignum Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Mate you wouldn`t believe some of the divs that turn up and mostly english too:blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benkei Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 When you go Go-Karting you're given a briefing and shown safety video before being allowed onto the track, so you know what all the signs and flags mean. I don't see why this should be any different. Educate the people before you let them loose! Show them the signs, flags, etiquette and what to do in an emergency. If everyone is following these guidelines then accidents will be minimised. If anyone breaks the rules or drives dangerously or irresponsibly, then they get chucked off and banned. Set the rules, educate the drivers, give a deterrent and all will be well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4packet Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I've come to expect us Brits to bring shame to the nation out at the 'ring, but how the Ring Taxi manages to get tangled up in this debacle is disgraceful. Seems it just ploughed into the back of cars that had safely slowed already. Surely the driver knew they were working on the track?? Have you seen the vid on BTG of the taxi muscling its way past a car at the apex on the right hand side? As for bikes, they really should try to separate them from the cars, but I think the logic is that it becomes more of an organised event rather than the disguise of a ‘toll road’. I love taking my pals bike round while I’m there, but it’s terrifying. Rear view vision is so variable no matter how hard you try (many don’t seem to bother!) and drivers are generally pretty impatient (me included). Anyone else think that the general pace of cars at the ‘ring has got quicker too? Think every year cars just seem to get quicker and quicker which doesn’t help the safety aspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignum Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I've come to expect us Brits to bring shame to the nation out at the 'ring, but how the Ring Taxi manages to get tangled up in this debacle is disgraceful. Seems it just ploughed into the back of cars that had safely slowed already. Surely the driver knew they were working on the track?? Have you seen the vid on BTG of the taxi muscling its way past a car at the apex on the right hand side? As for bikes, they really should try to separate them from the cars, but I think the logic is that it becomes more of an organised event rather than the disguise of a ‘toll road’. I love taking my pals bike round while I’m there, but it’s terrifying. Rear view vision is so variable no matter how hard you try (many don’t seem to bother!) and drivers are generally pretty impatient (me included). Anyone else think that the general pace of cars at the ‘ring has got quicker too? Think every year cars just seem to get quicker and quicker which doesn’t help the safety aspect. Yes for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4packet Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Watch from 9:30 onwards and note the Corvette being punted by the taxi in the top right corner at 10:32 as the camera car moves away. Also right at the start of the vid, is that Kermit going in the opposite direction? Not seen or heard from him (forget his name) in a while. Not sure if this vid will get pulled like the rest of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bignum Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 That was indeed kermit( george) at the start.nice find on the video, didn`t seem to put him off at all:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJI Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Just seen this vid. The footage clearly shows what looks like the ring taxi hitting the rear of the corvette. 100% blame on the taxi for that. Many drivers on the track do fail to remember that because it is classed as a public toll road that you still have to drive in a manner as you would on a pubilc road. Hence why there aren't full marshal controls nor the other types of pace control that you'd find in competition racing conditions. If one drives around at a speed whereby you are exceeding your visual stopping distance then you only have yourself to blame if it goes wrong. Unfortunately many do this all too frequently. The ring taxi on this occasion clearly does this to cause a secondary accident. I'm guessing from the replies so far that the initial blame would lie mostly with the first car not being able to react to the road works and then also with the road workers for not providing enough advanced warning or works. It will be an interesting one to follow through the claims courts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Watch from 9:30 onwards and note the Corvette being punted by the taxi in the top right corner at 10:32 as the camera car moves away. Also right at the start of the vid, is that Kermit going in the opposite direction? Not seen or heard from him (forget his name) in a while. Not sure if this vid will get pulled like the rest of them. I ran into George (Kermit) at Spa the day after. He mentioned the big crash, mentioned his car was running on 5 cylinders, but it seems he didn't get involved in the incident. I think the whole problem with TF was epitomised for me this year, waiting over an hour for a bent ferrari to be recovered (yeah I know, only a short stoppage!). The owner was driving in slacks and shirt, girlfriend with high heels and miniskirt, no sign of safety gear at all. People just rock up and go out for hi-jinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom S Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 Chris, thanks for the 4 odd laps around Spa yesterday, it was really good. I think this is what we should be doing moving forward.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ark Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Chris, thanks for the 4 odd laps around Spa yesterday, it was really good. I think this is what we should be doing moving forward.. My pleasure buddy. Did your mates pull the whole "we were on our cool downs" after we passed them? I agree, it's clear we can't drum up enough participants to book the whole track to ourselves, but block-booking onto an existing day must be an option, surely. Buying power usually means discounts too Plus Spa is half the price of the Ring for trackdays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I understand that, but I honestly can't see anyone going there and not knowing the risks involved. You'd have to be pretty damn special to do that. I don't get all this campaigning to make it safer. Just don't be an idiot and you'll be fine I think you give the Average Joe way, way too much credit. There are a lot people who are not as good as they think they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 I think you give the Average Joe way, way too much credit. There are a lot people who are not as good as they think they are. You'd still have to be pretty stupid to drive on a race track without knowing that motorsport can be dangerous. Does anyone have a 'Ring ticket lying around? I'd like to see what it says about safety on the back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 You'd still have to be pretty stupid to drive on a race track without knowing that motorsport can be dangerous. Does anyone have a 'Ring ticket lying around? I'd like to see what it says about safety on the back. I'd bet all the drivers at the Ring would agree it can be dangerous. But for many people, that's just an abstract word that means nothing until they themselves are involved in a crash. When they're told that it is dangerous, a lot probably just think, "Cool!" or, "What-evva!" To use a different example, most people driving on UK roads would admit that driving can be dangerous. Yet lots and lots (a significant proportion) still text or make calls whilst driving. They don't modify their behaviour because it's not real enough for them until they've put their own car into a ditch or stuffed it into the back of another vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJI Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 The owner was driving in slacks and shirt, girlfriend with high heels and miniskirt, no sign of safety gear at all. People just rock up and go out for hi-jinks. Well, this is what TF days are about. I do like the way anybody in more or less any vehicle with a valid MOT can go around a historic race track under the conditions of a public toll road. Its when people don't accept those conditions and drive in other manners when things usually go wrong. Its a unique place in the world and its something that any petrolhead should do at least once in their lifetime. I do hope the German government do not cave in to the health&safety groups and keep this gem going for as long as possible. As the 'ring becomes more busy each year, the driver attitudes need to change IMO. Either that or have the N'ring operators control the amount of cars going through the gates. But with this second option it would rocket the ticket prices as time on track becomes more of a demand. I'm firmly in the camp of the individual taking responsibility for their own actions and not having a blanket set of rules/closures/restrictions for everyone due to the actions of a few. If the mind set of this could be drilled in to more people then maybe drivers would act accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanisLupus Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 You'd still have to be pretty stupid to drive on a race track without knowing that motorsport can be dangerous. Does anyone have a 'Ring ticket lying around? I'd like to see what it says about safety on the back. Not on the cards themselves but there are instructions on the website and brochures at the entrance. Safety Instructions Terms and Conditions But honestly who reads them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Any better shots of the accident involving the taxi, you see it a little bit at the top of the screen but I am confused as to why when everyone else was slowing down and past the warning signs the taxi never did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 Any better shots of the accident involving the taxi, you see it a little bit at the top of the screen but I am confused as to why when everyone else was slowing down and past the warning signs the taxi never did. Knowing the track better than 99% of people on it at the time, he/she was probably carrying significantly more speed than everyone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz6002 Posted October 6, 2011 Share Posted October 6, 2011 But honestly who reads them? OK, so whose fault is it when things go wrong? People seem to be blaming the track, but people go there and drive like that, knowing there will be others driving like that too, of their own free will. It's no different to skiing, ice skating or any other sport where anyone can attend at any level. So everyone going on about how the 'Ring should have better 'elf and safety - what's the solution? Speed limits? Independant car and bike sessions? Less people on the track at a time? Mandatory race licences? Compulsory supervision? How much are you willing to pay for these measures? The track certainly can't afford to implement them and laps aren't exactly cheap now. I say leave this how they are and let Darwin's theory run its course. The 'Ring TF days and the un-restricted Autobahns are some of the last great freedoms in this world and IMHO they should stay exactly as they are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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