Abz Posted September 2, 2011 Share Posted September 2, 2011 I suspect from the information already provided, the move to virtualisation is a "me too" scenario for your company - expensive and kinda pointless considering how cheap a load of low end servers are compared with a handful of really powerful, expensive servers. Like cloud, it's trendy right now, but most people find it runs like shit because they under-estimate the actual loadings/costings. Mind you, there are an awful lot of consultancies who will help you get it right, for a fee. I don't feel it is as trendy as cloud is (which is the 'in' product at the mo), though I agree with you that with a SMB business it can be a very expensive exercise. Hopefully the OP can advise on the specs of her current lab hardware & whether new hardware is being implemented as in this process too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 We are definitely getting new hardware for sure, it's just not going to be a limitless budget! I think it's a case of: I need to come up with a suitable solution and tell them how much it will cost and go from there. Monday I'll get my head around exactly what physical spec the current one is. As for it being a trendy thing - if it turns out that it isn't cost effective, that will be picked up so it won't happen. I think one of the major drives is to give us the ability to have several test environments (different OS etc) that can be used and binned off as required. Very concious of expansion too - company has gone from 5 people to 17 in the space of 8 ish months, and there is a lot of work in the pipeline so we need to be able to develop and test and demo the products sensibly and efficiently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 Some places might, the places I've been haven't, at least without a heavy amount of clustering, but as said, depends on your scale/cost/risk really! Ah you escaped the Evil Machine Corporation then eh? As VMW isn't my forte I'm not sure how well it can share direct attached disk. NAS is good especially for file level access, but if you get into replication, copies etc SAN is the way forward if budget permits (and imho) Seems many on here are VMW people so get a nice unbiased opinion. Drop me a PM if you want advice on looking at infrastructure from a large scale or any storage stuff. Yeah I've escaped! Bit of a culture shock but it's great to be back in the company where things actually get done without months of change control! Ha. Thanks for your help & the offer on the storage advice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 Certainly does help! At least I know you are sorting out the test lab I think the main question is what spec the server is which will be handling the virtualisation? It would need to be quite well spec'd to notice an improvement. Do you have a budget for improving the current hardware or are you looking to just improve on what you have? The spec is what it will need to be - will be getting new hardware. Or at least I expect I will ask for A, they will want Z and we'll meet somewhere in the middle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 Yeah defo, you can run more way more than 9 vm's on a single host. Was my understanding too, I just suddenly wondered if the SMB licenses limited it further having misread that table! Duh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted September 2, 2011 Author Share Posted September 2, 2011 Go with free ESXi, and just P2V your existing T&D machines with VMware convertor. Was my initial reaction too (in a 'not got a clue how to actually do it yet' kinda way) A lot of the guys here are Hyper-V fans - so I guess half my reason for questioning is so that I can genuinely prove that VMware is the right choice! Obviously it would be my preference (biased) but I guess I need to consider other options too for completeness. Understanding the major differences has spiralled massively!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 OK, so if anyone understands how the Windows licensing work you could save my brian, which aches a lot right now. Basically, I think the decision is going to come down to cost - it seems that the free Hyper V means you can run 4 vm's off the license that 'comes' with the server...? But with vmware you need a MS license for EACH vm that you deploy, is that right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 OK, so if anyone understands how the Windows licensing work you could save my brian, which aches a lot right now. Basically, I think the decision is going to come down to cost - it seems that the free Hyper V means you can run 4 vm's off the license that 'comes' with the server...? But with vmware you need a MS license for EACH vm that you deploy, is that right? Yes, it's something like that anyway. It's Microsofts major advantage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted September 7, 2011 Author Share Posted September 7, 2011 Blimey, for a small company it's almost a no brainer then Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexM Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 OK, so if anyone understands how the Windows licensing work you could save my brian, which aches a lot right now. Basically, I think the decision is going to come down to cost - it seems that the free Hyper V means you can run 4 vm's off the license that 'comes' with the server...? But with vmware you need a MS license for EACH vm that you deploy, is that right? The standalone Hyper-V product does not include any virtual licenses, you would still need to purchase these. 2008 R2 Enterprise includes 4 virtual licenses and is quite cost effective, but you're looking at £2000 odd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Standard includes 1 license Enterprise 4 licenses Data Centre UNLIMITED licenses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted September 8, 2011 Author Share Posted September 8, 2011 Yup, right I sussed it out - we've got enterprise license so we are good for 1+4, but it's the same whether VMware or Hyper-V effectively - so back to square one with decision making! Does anyone know if the free VMware download comes with vSphere? I assume it does but I can't seem to find a conclusive answer in the doco!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted September 8, 2011 Share Posted September 8, 2011 The vSphere client? Yeah you just connect to the host in a web browser and it'll give you a download link for the client install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted September 9, 2011 Author Share Posted September 9, 2011 Perfect thank you - had horrible visions of finding out that without a license we'd only have access to the command prompt! Currently breaking myself with speccing the physical hardware. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schtuv Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 The first thing to do is to talk to your application vendors ... each one will have a preferred solution, recommendation that they've tested, and supported environment. If you go outside those parameters you can find yourself with a broken system, or system you're trying to DR, and no support. I've had mixed experiences with virtualised servers. Some just keep running with no problems (Dell hardware with Dell custom copies of the VMWare environment), whereas others (Dell hardware and iSCSI SAN, generic VMWare install) have monthly moments where all the hosts and the server become unresponsive (that's a mix of VMWare ESXi 3.5, VMWare ESXi 4.x). Check the hardware and application requirements as well, as VMWare changed their support for miniport drivers between versions (and hence SCSI backup interfaces) which ballsed things up, to use a technical term. And avoid virtualising anything on Windows 2000 - while you'll be OK 75% of the time, 25% of the time it leaves you in a world of pain ... I'd recommend getting ESXi to play with first. The "virtualise your first server" stuff steps you through it, and works well. And always try to backup, mash, and restore your servers before doing anything else, just to know you can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Voted for virtualbox for just mucking about with I use it for my build servers as it is a lot cheaper on licensing, BUT it is a command line nightmare at first At least teleportation is included with out vmotion That said, I'm a cloud guy through and through.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted September 9, 2011 Share Posted September 9, 2011 Oh and we're using NAS storage, but actually Storage is my weakest area - in fact I know almost nothing about it! Storage is a mine field.... Casey is a storage expert IMHO of outstanding proportion... We ended up designing a very bespoke solution that suits our application requirements, which aren't really translateable to anything else..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supragal Posted September 12, 2011 Author Share Posted September 12, 2011 Problem is that vendors are not overly interested in talking to us because we are such small fry and are only intending on using the free version. At the moment it's looking like vmware, I'm now on to SMP/CPU vCPU etc stuff. I don't understand any of it! LOL It's also an issue that I can't play with it until we've got a server but we can't get a server until I've specced it and ordered it, so I have to make sure I've specced it right, except without playing it's not so easy to figure out!. FAIL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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