mwilkinson Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 My engine is now down at AFR being rebuilt ready for my single install. I was going to do this all myself but I quite honestly just don't have the time to do this at the moment. John and the lads are more than capable and I'm just looking forward to the finished results and it's a weight of my mind. I am now starting to think about the engine loom. I am going to buy new plugs for all connections on the loom and as such decided to build a bespoke loom with new wiring etc.. Has anyone done this for a single and have any guides as to what wire to use? I also want to get rid of the stock fuse box. I was thinking if there was anyway to use a digital fuse system as used on modern cars. That is to say trip switches instead of fuses. Could this be run from an ECU like the Syvecs which I will be using? Has anyone used a more modern and streamlined fuse box? I have seen in Hodge's thread that he hid the fuse box in the glove box but I'm not keen on this. I am also looking to install quick release connectors from the engine to the gearbox and the engine from the ECU loom. Anyone have any suggestions on what plugs to use? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckler Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 I got my hands on a second loom and stripped off what wasn't needed. I looked into the cost of making a loom with new plugs (for me) it wasn't cost effective. As for quick disconnect connectors, only really one option - mil spec connectors, but be prepared for a shock of the cost of them. Saying that I'll probably putting some on mine - but I have access to some... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 I got my hands on a second loom and stripped off what wasn't needed. I looked into the cost of making a loom with new plugs (for me) it wasn't cost effective. As for quick disconnect connectors, only really one option - mil spec connectors, but be prepared for a shock of the cost of them. Saying that I'll probably putting some on mine - but I have access to some... Yeah, not expecting it to be cheap Si. My concern is that you spend so much money on the engine and bling etc.. Then reinstall a butchered 16+ year old bit of wiring to run some very important things. When you say expensive connectors what are we talking and are they commercially available? Got any comments on the fuse box situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 If you want to do a proper job Tefzel insulated wire is the stuff to use. RS Components are one source of it online. Motec also sell it. Budget for crimping tools, some are seriously expensive, although some generic crimpers work fairly well. For none OE connectors I use DTM connectors from Deutsch, they are a LOT cheaper than the Motorport mil spec connectors, but are still superb quality. The ecu swill most likely come with its own connectors, again, have you got the right tooling to crimp the connectors on? 22 gauge is good for most sensors bar O2. The injectors and coil packs are best done with something a bit heavier like 20 or maybe even 18 gauge. Grounds need to be perfect, and supply protected with a fuse and I always add a diode in the ecu relay coil wiring to stop the relay even energising with a reversed polarity. M-Cal sell Deutsch connectors and tooling, as do Motec. pricing is pretty similar. Have fun, I find it a nightmare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckler Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) MIL spec stuff, is er around £150 per connector pair... And are commercially available Also helps I have access to all the tooling too... Edited August 28, 2011 by heckler (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 MIL spec stuff, is er around £150 per connector pair... And are commercially available Also helps I have access to all the tooling too... Ouch...thats a fair whack. I think I will look at Chris's options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 If you want to do a proper job Tefzel insulated wire is the stuff to use. RS Components are one source of it online. Motec also sell it. Budget for crimping tools, some are seriously expensive, although some generic crimpers work fairly well. For none OE connectors I use DTM connectors from Deutsch, they are a LOT cheaper than the Motorport mil spec connectors, but are still superb quality. The ecu swill most likely come with its own connectors, again, have you got the right tooling to crimp the connectors on? 22 gauge is good for most sensors bar O2. The injectors and coil packs are best done with something a bit heavier like 20 or maybe even 18 gauge. Grounds need to be perfect, and supply protected with a fuse and I always add a diode in the ecu relay coil wiring to stop the relay even energising with a reversed polarity. M-Cal sell Deutsch connectors and tooling, as do Motec. pricing is pretty similar. Have fun, I find it a nightmare My brothers an auto electrician for the police and therefore has access to some funky kit. i'm sure I could piece most things together. They install all the radio equipment too so most connector tools should be available. I will take a look at the RS stuff and see what I can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 The DT and DTM (miniature DT) connectors are a maximum, from memory, of 12 way, so unless you need to connect more than 12 wires together in one connector shell they should do. The proper round MIL spec stuff goes to 70 odd wires in one shell. I just had to buy one for my Lola, and it was about 140 quid, plus pins, plus VAT. plus carriage..... I can't see you needing them as the densest connector will be the ecu itself, and they have their own connectors if it's a Syvecs. Have a look here: http://www.m-cal.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckler Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Some of the MIL spec go from 2 pins to like you say 70 odd. All the ones I can get come with the pins and blanks. Saying that, there still outrageously expensive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 The DT and DTM (miniature DT) connectors are a maximum, from memory, of 12 way, so unless you need to connect more than 12 wires together in one connector shell they should do. The proper round MIL spec stuff goes to 70 odd wires in one shell. I just had to buy one for my Lola, and it was about 140 quid, plus pins, plus VAT. plus carriage..... I can't see you needing them as the densest connector will be the ecu itself, and they have their own connectors if it's a Syvecs. Have a look here: http://www.m-cal.com/ Good link there Chris +1 for you Sir. Some very good connectors. I quite like the AS connectors. I could fabricate a plate and use a two hole connector straight from the bulkhead to the engine loom. Then create a custom loom from the connector in the car to the Syvecs. I have a cunning plan M'Lord!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Lots of people do that, but technically it's not a good idea, the fewer connectors the better, the most reliable cable joint is one that's not there at all. Just feed the cable through the bulkhead hole with the ecu connectors as the last link. (IMHO). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) Trying to think of the stock engine connectors that you would keep be on a typical single turbo loom: Cam position sensors x 2 Oil Level sensor Crank Position sensor Oil pressure sensor Water temp sensor (Radiator) Water temp sensor (Block) Coil Pack connectors x6 Alternator Injector connectors x 6 Ignitor pack x 2 (black box on suspension tower) ABS actuator Aircon pump Oil pump? (Is there one I can't quite remember) MAP Sensor Plenum air temp sensor Knock Sensors x 2 TPS ICV Additional sensors and wiring: Oil pressure AFR Fuel Pressure Wastegate Solenoid Control Can anyone think of any others? Edited August 28, 2011 by mwilkinson (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 (edited) Radiator thermo switch (in bottom tank of rad, is it part of the engine loom, I can't recall?). MAP sensor. Plenum air temp sensor. You may want to run a fuel pressure sensor and an oil pressure sensor, the stock sensor is just a switch for the warning light in the dash. The engine loom also has, as stock, the wiring for the single wire water temp sensor for the dash gauge. Knock sensors x 2 Throttle position sensor (+ the other stuff if you want to retain secondary throttle plate control, or convert to DBW). Idle control valve. Wastegate control solenoid. Things I have forgotten... Edited August 28, 2011 by Chris Wilson (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 This is the MC04-768060 12 Way female kit DTM Series. £16.50 This is the MC04-768061 12 way male kit DTM Series. They also supply rubber boots for either side of the connectors. I think this is what I will go for. They also do a two pin which is what I will use for the loom connector to the gearbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 Radiator thermo switch (in bottom tank of rad, is it part of the engine loom, I can't recall?). MAP sensor. Plenum air temp sensor. You may want to run a fuel pressure sensor and an oil pressure sensor, the stock sensor is just a switch for the warning light in the dash. The engine loom also has, as stock, the wiring for the single wire water temp sensor for the dash gauge. Knock sensors x 2 Throttle position sensor (+ the other stuff if you want to retain secondary throttle plate control, or convert to DBW). Idle control valve. Wastegate control solenoid. Things I have forgotten... Cheers Chris, I've updated the list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 You will DEFINITELY need the DTM crimp tool for the contacts, the male and female round pins both use the same crimp tool. I think I got mine from RS, they were cheapest at the time, but still around 200 odd quid. Just thought, I can grab old order details from RS, it soon mounts up....: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 In the words of inspector Gadget Wowsers!! The cheapest I can find is £249. Will have to see of my brother has a set. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 The AS stuff is far worse, the main tool is very dear, plus each pin type needs a different adaptor turret at about £50 a shot. Unless you do a lot of connectors it sometimes pays to get a loom done by a specialist. I like to have the facility to repair or mod myself though, saves a lot of time and possible misunderstandings. If you prepped the loom all ready I could crimp the pins for you? BE AWARE the DTM pins will only take up to about 22 gauge, maybe 20 gauge wire, some OE loom stuff is pretty hefty. Deutsch have all the manuals on their site for downloading, or I can e-mail you the DTM one if you want? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted August 28, 2011 Author Share Posted August 28, 2011 The AS stuff is far worse, the main tool is very dear, plus each pin type needs a different adaptor turret at about £50 a shot. Unless you do a lot of connectors it sometimes pays to get a loom done by a specialist. I like to have the facility to repair or mod myself though, saves a lot of time and possible misunderstandings. If you prepped the loom all ready I could crimp the pins for you? BE AWARE the DTM pins will only take up to about 22 gauge, maybe 20 gauge wire, some OE loom stuff is pretty hefty. Deutsch have all the manuals on their site for downloading, or I can e-mail you the DTM one if you want? Thanks for the offer Chris. Can you send me the DTM manual by email. Will email you first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 We've been at Rockingham all day, so sorry for delay, two manuals are winging their way to you right now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted August 29, 2011 Author Share Posted August 29, 2011 We've been at Rockingham all day, so sorry for delay, two manuals are winging their way to you right now No need to apologise, your doing me a good turn. Thanks for your help Chris Will post my exploits as they are done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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