ADD Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 whats your oil level like - are you having to top up from time to time? a slightly leaky oil stem seal would have very little difference on the oil levels. I've topped the oil up once in the last few months. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 If left for an hour you get hesitant start and blue smoke as you would if left over night. But if left for a few mins it's just a bit of a bitch to start no smoke. That's not TOO serious then. I would still get it looked at when you can but I wouldn't be braking the bank to do it The fact that it's a bitch to start sounds like the map bud. Maybe needing a tweak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADD Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 That's not TOO serious then. I would still get it looked at when you can but I wouldn't be braking the bank to do it The fact that it's a bitch to start sounds like the map bud. Maybe needing a tweak. It has been back to mapper but the start up is still bad. I hope it's not and ecu problem! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 When did you last change the plugs and clean the idle valve out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADD Posted August 16, 2011 Author Share Posted August 16, 2011 When did you last change the plugs and clean the idle valve out? Plugs changed about 2k miles ago after mapping session but never cleaned idle valve! Wouldn't even know where it is swampy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Plugs changed about 2k miles ago after mapping session but never cleaned idle valve! Wouldn't even know where it is swampy Did they mention the cold/hot start during the mapping? Unusual to leave you with a rough start without a reason. Idle valve is on the back left of the stock manifold. Geo did a thread on cleaning it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 Remember when oil is hot the viscosity is a lot thinner so this is when the oil is prob getting in the combustion chamber, oil ingress into the combustion chamber CAN cause DET but this particular oil is prob being burnt off instantly so in this case is no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 16, 2011 Share Posted August 16, 2011 I don't know about anyone else, but I feel there is something else going on here. Valve stem oil leakage is usually a slow process, taking years to manifest and gradually getting worse. You tend to notice it after long periods of idling, like at traffic lights, because the in-cylinder vacuum actively draws the oil past the worn seal. This is a long way from oil leaking in simply under gravity and enough getting in the cylinder to cause a plume of smoke after a few seconds. If that much oil is getting into the cylinder that fast and you've not noticed it before, I'd be suspicious it's something else. Have you done a compression check and a leakdown test? If an oil ring has gone it needs sorting out ASAP, even though it's £££s and a pain in the neck - leaving it can trash the motor. The difficulty to start could be a separate issue, I don't know how much oil you'd need leaking in to cause starting problems, but it'd have to be in more than one cylinder as well. Pull the spark plugs and post up pictures of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADD Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 Thanks Ian for your input, it was strange as it came back from having the single put on and was an immediate pain to start (NOTHING against the guys who done the work) but i just put that down to the fact that it had no map and bigger injectors on it, from then on even with mapping it was a pain to start. It had a leakdown and compression test befoe i had the single put on. I will get a vid up of the start up and also take the plugs out with pics cheers I don't know about anyone else, but I feel there is something else going on here. Valve stem oil leakage is usually a slow process, taking years to manifest and gradually getting worse. You tend to notice it after long periods of idling, like at traffic lights, because the in-cylinder vacuum actively draws the oil past the worn seal. This is a long way from oil leaking in simply under gravity and enough getting in the cylinder to cause a plume of smoke after a few seconds. If that much oil is getting into the cylinder that fast and you've not noticed it before, I'd be suspicious it's something else. Have you done a compression check and a leakdown test? If an oil ring has gone it needs sorting out ASAP, even though it's £££s and a pain in the neck - leaving it can trash the motor. The difficulty to start could be a separate issue, I don't know how much oil you'd need leaking in to cause starting problems, but it'd have to be in more than one cylinder as well. Pull the spark plugs and post up pictures of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Thanks Ian for your input, it was strange as it came back from having the single put on and was an immediate pain to start (NOTHING against the guys who done the work) but i just put that down to the fact that it had no map and bigger injectors on it, from then on even with mapping it was a pain to start. It had a leakdown and compression test befoe i had the single put on. I will get a vid up of the start up and also take the plugs out with pics cheers Who is doing the mapping? Would it be possible to get someone else to look at it? They shouldn't have left you with a car struggling to start buddy. I know the cold and hot starts can be a bit tricky though, but even then they should be fixing the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADD Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 Who is doing the mapping? Would it be possible to get someone else to look at it? They shouldn't have left you with a car struggling to start buddy. I know the cold and hot starts can be a bit tricky though, but even then they should be fixing the issue. I took the car back to Ryan to remap and fit new ecu, when I collected it the start was ok, took a few cranks but started with little smoke. It has got allot worse over that time. Don't want this to reflect on his work as he is as you all know brilliant at what he does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 I took the car back to Ryan to remap and fit new ecu, when I collected it the start was ok, took a few cranks but started with little smoke. It has got allot worse over that time. Don't want this to reflect on his work as he is as you all know brilliant at what he does. See that's the reason I asked. I was surprised at it being left with a rough start but as you have just explained it wasn't rough to begin with, it has gotten that way. The way you explained it previously was that the mapper gave you the car with the rough start. I would definitely pull the plugs and get a good look at them (maybe even just replace them for the hell of it), same with the coilpack connector clips etc. It sounds like this is only going to get worse. As said though, it does sound like 2 seperate issues. But I would want to get to the bottom of them, even if it was just to verify the seals were on the way out (liveable). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADD Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 See that's the reason I asked. I was surprised at it being left with a rough start but as you have just explained it wasn't rough to begin with, it has gotten that way. The way you explained it previously was that the mapper gave you the car with the rough start. I would definitely pull the plugs and get a good look at them (maybe even just replace them for the hell of it), same with the coilpack connector clips etc. It sounds like this is only going to get worse. As said though, it does sound like 2 seperate issues. But I would want to get to the bottom of them, even if it was just to verify the seals were on the way out (liveable). The start wasn't perfect but was fine for me but as said got bad. I'll take a look at plugs etc tonight, the clips were only changed a few thousand miles ago.I'll also give the ICV a clean. But yes wanna defo get to bottom of the prob. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 The start wasn't perfect but was fine for me but as said got bad. I'll take a look at plugs etc tonight, the clips were only changed a few thousand miles ago.I'll also give the ICV a clean. But yes wanna defo get to bottom of the prob. Check the clips regardless, just incase one of the pins is loose or something silly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADD Posted August 18, 2011 Author Share Posted August 18, 2011 Check the clips regardless, just incase one of the pins is loose or something silly ICV was extremely dirty so cleaned up, clips thoroughly checked and all in tact but then started raining so will get bids and pics over weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I recall Jake had leaky stem seals on his VVti for about eight years and it never caused him any problems, hence me wondering about this. If you drove it around a lot with bigger injectors and no map you'd have been crazy rich on fuel. This might have caused bore wash, and now oil is leaking past the piston rings. I hope not, as that's bad news, but it does fit what you've described so far regarding poor start and oil burning Just depends on how much you drove it unmapped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADD Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 I recall Jake had leaky stem seals on his VVti for about eight years and it never caused him any problems, hence me wondering about this. If you drove it around a lot with bigger injectors and no map you'd have been crazy rich on fuel. This might have caused bore wash, and now oil is leaking past the piston rings. I hope not, as that's bad news, but it does fit what you've described so far regarding poor start and oil burning Just depends on how much you drove it unmapped. Ok mate that's interesting! I drove it for prob 65-70 miles which was back from Enfield then to get mapped, no boost just 55-60mph. I really hope it ain't bore wash! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Do a compression test mate, just to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Hmm, back of fag packet calculations based on your garage details - you did have j-spec injectors (440cc) and now have 650cc ones, that's a 50% size increase. so instead of 14:1 AFRs at cruise you'd run 14:1.5 which is about 9.5:1! Closed loop would have tried to compensate for that but you'd probably still have been running 10:1 AFR for an hour or so Deffo time for a compression check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADD Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 (edited) Hmm, back of fag packet calculations based on your garage details - you did have j-spec injectors (440cc) and now have 650cc ones, that's a 50% size increase. so instead of 14:1 AFRs at cruise you'd run 14:1.5 which is about 9.5:1! Closed loop would have tried to compensate for that but you'd probably still have been running 10:1 AFR for an hour or so Deffo time for a compression check. bloody hell! Ok I'll get one done again. Before I had the single done they were: 1-5 was 165 and 6 was 170..... This isn't sounding good! Ah just thought I had 550cc in there with the hybrids then went to 650cc not from 440cc Edited August 19, 2011 by ADD (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADD Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 Ian if this was the case, what sort of a job is it? Engine replacement? Cheers Ad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rider Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 That blue smoke puff after a 3 second start up is just like my turbo diesel truck - very embarrassing for you indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 20, 2011 Share Posted August 20, 2011 Ian if this was the case, what sort of a job is it? Engine replacement? Cheers Ad Probably an overbore and oversized pistons, new rings etc. I might be talking out my backside though and you can just fit new rings or something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ADD Posted August 21, 2011 Author Share Posted August 21, 2011 Probably an overbore and oversized pistons, new rings etc. I might be talking out my backside though and you can just fit new rings or something I really need to know how I go about's finding what the prob is here? I shall get another leak down and compression check done ASAP..... I do thank u all for your help!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 21, 2011 Share Posted August 21, 2011 The leakdown and compression check will tell you. If the results are low, there is some trick where you add some oil to the cylinder via the spark plug hole and retest - if the compression goes back up, you've got worn rings/bore and the oil is helping seal it. (If it doesn't go up it's a valve leak) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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