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Fiat Engines = pain in the arse!


Paul R

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what is it with Fiat? I'm changing the head gasket on my wifes punto 1.2 16v - Why did fiat insist on having a head extension instead of just a head and rocker cover? what a pain!

 

Also the haynes manual goes on about using special tools to line up the pistons/cams/valves when changing the cambelt. Why havent they got marks on the cam pulley and crank pulley like any other car?

 

I thought I had the tools to do almost everything with the engine, but i've had to buy a long reach hex socket set now! argg! I'm fed up with working on punto's! it's always breaking! A few months ago I had to replace the complete rear brake assembly and brake lines.

 

feel better now :)

 

Paul.

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Guest kenblockseal

I always find puntos the easiest cars in the world to work on, Just remember to skim the head while its off, We probibly replace 5 headgaskets a month on puntos in my garage so have it down to no time now right enough. Imsurprised fiat didnt advise changing the head gasket as a service item :D

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I always find puntos the easiest cars in the world to work on, Just remember to skim the head while its off, We probibly replace 5 headgaskets a month on puntos in my garage so have it down to no time now right enough. Imsurprised fiat didnt advise changing the head gasket as a service item :D

 

Yeah, now I have done it once, I could probably do it in an hour or two next time.

 

is there way to put the timing belt on without using the 'special' tools? i've marked the old timing belt and pulleys, so I can get it back on exactly how it came off, but i'd like to put a new cambelt on ideally.

 

Paul.

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I thought that if the pulleys are marked you just set them all to TDC and fit the new belt. Mark up the belt once it's on then rotate the crank a few times to make sure it all lines back up again?

 

Thats it, they arent marked! I suppose I could put the old belt back on and then mark the pulleys to the block/head, then take the belt off and stick a new one on.

 

Paul.

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I don't think you need to be as complicated as that but it certainly won't hurt for future reference.

 

If you fit the old belt and pulleys, lining up the marks, you can simply remove the old belt and fit the new one. As long as you don't rotate anything in the process the timing will be fine. Then simply mark the new belt corresponding to the pulleys and give it a few turns to check it.

 

Job done.

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I don't think you need to be as complicated as that but it certainly won't hurt for future reference.

 

If you fit the old belt and pulleys, lining up the marks, you can simply remove the old belt and fit the new one. As long as you don't rotate anything in the process the timing will be fine. Then simply mark the new belt corresponding to the pulleys and give it a few turns to check it.

 

Job done.

 

thats it though! if something moves and I havent noticed then ill be screwed! :)

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now I'm really annoyed. I started to undo the head bolts last night (correct order, 1/4 turn at a time). I got to the last bolt and the plines inside the bolt head just sheared off - I didnt apply hardly any pressure! what a pile of ****!!

 

Going to have to drill the head off the last bolt now!

 

I dont suppose it would be a good idea to weld a socket onto the bolt head would it? The heat would probably knacker the head.

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Fiat, nuff said.

 

Bit like my citroen saxo I had as a daily hack a few years ago, 3 of the head bolts sheered when I tried to replace the head gasket.

 

good luck getting it sorted, my friends brother had a 1.2 sporting punto that blew its HG, wasnt ever the same again after that, ended up selling the car after constant problems.

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A lot of modern engines do not have keyways to orientate the cam pulleys to the cams, and the cams themselves need setting relative to the crank, the belt and pulleys fitting, tensioning, then all locking up. I know someone who drilled 2 mm holes in one cam cap and into the cam journal itself slightly, on both cams, to act as a setting tool with a bit of thin rod in each when it went back together, with the crank set at TDC No 1. Worked fine, but beware of drilling into the hollow section of centre oil fed hollow cams, or you will have a timed geyser when the engine runs... :)

 

German, Japanese or Swedish is the motto.....

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A lot of modern engines do not have keyways to orientate the cam pulleys to the cams, and the cams themselves need setting relative to the crank, the belt and pulleys fitting, tensioning, then all locking up. I know someone who drilled 2 mm holes in one cam cap and into the cam journal itself slightly, on both cams, to act as a setting tool with a bit of thin rod in each when it went back together, with the crank set at TDC No 1. Worked fine, but beware of drilling into the hollow section of centre oil fed hollow cams, or you will have a timed geyser when the engine runs... :)

 

German, Japanese or Swedish is the motto.....

 

If your not taking the pulleys off, then you should be able to mark the pulleys to the head/block and then put it back exactly how it came off shouldnt you? I dont get why they dont put markings on the pulleys!

 

 

Why dont all engines have keyways/TDC marks on the cams/crank pulleys? To make it harder for joe public I guess?

 

Paul.

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It allows for production tolerances to be ironed out completely, and on engines likely to have the head skimmed (ring any bells.... :)) it makes sure the shorter crank C/L to camshaft C/L height reduction after shaving doesn't impact cam timing, which using marks would do. Making a pulley which could be put on in any orientation would cause trouble down the line....

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It allows for production tolerances to be ironed out completely, and on engines likely to have the head skimmed (ring any bells.... :)) it makes sure the shorter crank C/L to camshaft C/L height reduction after shaving doesn't impact cam timing, which using marks would do. Making a pulley which could be put on in any orientation would cause trouble down the line....

 

So what your saying is that I should buy the couple of tools to set the TDC and lock the cams in place as I'm going to have the head skimmed? Or wont it make that much difference if I just mark it up and slap the old cambelt back on?

 

Cheers,

 

Paul.

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It won't make a huge difference, but sometimes it's enough for modern engines to go into limp home, some even require a new ECU if run for long like that. The ecu sees a disparity between known acceptable figures for crank TDC and cam position, if it's excessive it can throw a wobbler on some engines. Modern DI diesels with worn timing chains are notorious for this, the fix can be thousands. Whether the Fiat does this I don't know. PROBABLY not, but take care.

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It won't make a huge difference, but sometimes it's enough for modern engines to go into limp home, some even require a new ECU if run for long like that. The ecu sees a disparity between known acceptable figures for crank TDC and cam position, if it's excessive it can throw a wobbler on some engines. Modern DI diesels with worn timing chains are notorious for this, the fix can be thousands. Whether the Fiat does this I don't know. PROBABLY not, but take care.

 

Ok thanks,

 

This is a 98' 1.2 16v, I dont think it's that advanced :) Did a bit of phoning around - the kit to reset the position of cams/crank/pistons is 80 quid! I could get a complete low mileage engine for 200!

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Thought I'd have another go with a new ribe bit and an impact wrench.....it worked! had to use a big lump hammer! The new bit was a tighter fit than the one i used before and there was just enough left of the splines in the head bolt for it to turn the bolt!

 

Photo's attatched, Head gasket doesnt look that bad, but one of the rings looks bent on the gasket?

 

It was defo the head gasket - pressure build/bubbles up in the coolant system and overheating/rough running.

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