Paul R Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 what is it with Fiat? I'm changing the head gasket on my wifes punto 1.2 16v - Why did fiat insist on having a head extension instead of just a head and rocker cover? what a pain! Also the haynes manual goes on about using special tools to line up the pistons/cams/valves when changing the cambelt. Why havent they got marks on the cam pulley and crank pulley like any other car? I thought I had the tools to do almost everything with the engine, but i've had to buy a long reach hex socket set now! argg! I'm fed up with working on punto's! it's always breaking! A few months ago I had to replace the complete rear brake assembly and brake lines. feel better now Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SupraDan24 Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 My mrs has a Fiat Stilo....i feel you pain Took me hours to find a hex bolt big enough to undo he oil bung as the biggest i could find round my way was 10mm. Also changed her rear discs and pads the other month without the windback tool for the calipers....never again !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest kenblockseal Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 I always find puntos the easiest cars in the world to work on, Just remember to skim the head while its off, We probibly replace 5 headgaskets a month on puntos in my garage so have it down to no time now right enough. Imsurprised fiat didnt advise changing the head gasket as a service item Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 I always find puntos the easiest cars in the world to work on, Just remember to skim the head while its off, We probibly replace 5 headgaskets a month on puntos in my garage so have it down to no time now right enough. Imsurprised fiat didnt advise changing the head gasket as a service item Yeah, now I have done it once, I could probably do it in an hour or two next time. is there way to put the timing belt on without using the 'special' tools? i've marked the old timing belt and pulleys, so I can get it back on exactly how it came off, but i'd like to put a new cambelt on ideally. Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 I thought that if the pulleys are marked you just set them all to TDC and fit the new belt. Mark up the belt once it's on then rotate the crank a few times to make sure it all lines back up again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 I thought that if the pulleys are marked you just set them all to TDC and fit the new belt. Mark up the belt once it's on then rotate the crank a few times to make sure it all lines back up again? Thats it, they arent marked! I suppose I could put the old belt back on and then mark the pulleys to the block/head, then take the belt off and stick a new one on. Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 I don't think you need to be as complicated as that but it certainly won't hurt for future reference. If you fit the old belt and pulleys, lining up the marks, you can simply remove the old belt and fit the new one. As long as you don't rotate anything in the process the timing will be fine. Then simply mark the new belt corresponding to the pulleys and give it a few turns to check it. Job done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josh Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 My mate has a Punto ('07 reg) and it breaks down at least once a month. It sucks, as he's worried to go anywhere far in it in case he can't get back. Trying to get him to buy a Supra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 I don't think you need to be as complicated as that but it certainly won't hurt for future reference. If you fit the old belt and pulleys, lining up the marks, you can simply remove the old belt and fit the new one. As long as you don't rotate anything in the process the timing will be fine. Then simply mark the new belt corresponding to the pulleys and give it a few turns to check it. Job done. thats it though! if something moves and I havent noticed then ill be screwed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 15, 2011 Share Posted August 15, 2011 thats it though! if something moves and I havent noticed then ill be screwed! I don't see how something could move without you noticing. Are your fists made of ham? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted August 15, 2011 Author Share Posted August 15, 2011 I don't see how something could move without you noticing. Are your fists made of ham? Haha, i'm jsut a bit clumbsy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 now I'm really annoyed. I started to undo the head bolts last night (correct order, 1/4 turn at a time). I got to the last bolt and the plines inside the bolt head just sheared off - I didnt apply hardly any pressure! what a pile of ****!! Going to have to drill the head off the last bolt now! I dont suppose it would be a good idea to weld a socket onto the bolt head would it? The heat would probably knacker the head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TubbyTwo Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Fiat, nuff said. Bit like my citroen saxo I had as a daily hack a few years ago, 3 of the head bolts sheered when I tried to replace the head gasket. good luck getting it sorted, my friends brother had a 1.2 sporting punto that blew its HG, wasnt ever the same again after that, ended up selling the car after constant problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 A lot of modern engines do not have keyways to orientate the cam pulleys to the cams, and the cams themselves need setting relative to the crank, the belt and pulleys fitting, tensioning, then all locking up. I know someone who drilled 2 mm holes in one cam cap and into the cam journal itself slightly, on both cams, to act as a setting tool with a bit of thin rod in each when it went back together, with the crank set at TDC No 1. Worked fine, but beware of drilling into the hollow section of centre oil fed hollow cams, or you will have a timed geyser when the engine runs... German, Japanese or Swedish is the motto..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 A lot of modern engines do not have keyways to orientate the cam pulleys to the cams, and the cams themselves need setting relative to the crank, the belt and pulleys fitting, tensioning, then all locking up. I know someone who drilled 2 mm holes in one cam cap and into the cam journal itself slightly, on both cams, to act as a setting tool with a bit of thin rod in each when it went back together, with the crank set at TDC No 1. Worked fine, but beware of drilling into the hollow section of centre oil fed hollow cams, or you will have a timed geyser when the engine runs... German, Japanese or Swedish is the motto..... If your not taking the pulleys off, then you should be able to mark the pulleys to the head/block and then put it back exactly how it came off shouldnt you? I dont get why they dont put markings on the pulleys! Why dont all engines have keyways/TDC marks on the cams/crank pulleys? To make it harder for joe public I guess? Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 It allows for production tolerances to be ironed out completely, and on engines likely to have the head skimmed (ring any bells.... ) it makes sure the shorter crank C/L to camshaft C/L height reduction after shaving doesn't impact cam timing, which using marks would do. Making a pulley which could be put on in any orientation would cause trouble down the line.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 It allows for production tolerances to be ironed out completely, and on engines likely to have the head skimmed (ring any bells.... ) it makes sure the shorter crank C/L to camshaft C/L height reduction after shaving doesn't impact cam timing, which using marks would do. Making a pulley which could be put on in any orientation would cause trouble down the line.... So what your saying is that I should buy the couple of tools to set the TDC and lock the cams in place as I'm going to have the head skimmed? Or wont it make that much difference if I just mark it up and slap the old cambelt back on? Cheers, Paul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evinX Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 Fix it again...ermmm Paul! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted August 17, 2011 Share Posted August 17, 2011 It won't make a huge difference, but sometimes it's enough for modern engines to go into limp home, some even require a new ECU if run for long like that. The ecu sees a disparity between known acceptable figures for crank TDC and cam position, if it's excessive it can throw a wobbler on some engines. Modern DI diesels with worn timing chains are notorious for this, the fix can be thousands. Whether the Fiat does this I don't know. PROBABLY not, but take care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 It won't make a huge difference, but sometimes it's enough for modern engines to go into limp home, some even require a new ECU if run for long like that. The ecu sees a disparity between known acceptable figures for crank TDC and cam position, if it's excessive it can throw a wobbler on some engines. Modern DI diesels with worn timing chains are notorious for this, the fix can be thousands. Whether the Fiat does this I don't know. PROBABLY not, but take care. Ok thanks, This is a 98' 1.2 16v, I dont think it's that advanced Did a bit of phoning around - the kit to reset the position of cams/crank/pistons is 80 quid! I could get a complete low mileage engine for 200! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul R Posted August 17, 2011 Author Share Posted August 17, 2011 Thought I'd have another go with a new ribe bit and an impact wrench.....it worked! had to use a big lump hammer! The new bit was a tighter fit than the one i used before and there was just enough left of the splines in the head bolt for it to turn the bolt! Photo's attatched, Head gasket doesnt look that bad, but one of the rings looks bent on the gasket? It was defo the head gasket - pressure build/bubbles up in the coolant system and overheating/rough running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobD Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 Thank god I don't work for Fiat anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havard Posted August 18, 2011 Share Posted August 18, 2011 One of the main problems with FIAT is the cars they make. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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