SamuraiFlash Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Hi guy's, I was just thinking of options of what to do when my stock turbo's go, and I came across the PHR Street turbo kit. If you play the video it starts off by saying that the car is running on the stock ecu and stock fuelling system, is this possible? If I did go Single I would go for the PHR kit and run low boost, just enough to give me BPU levels, 420-430hp (14-15psi?), is this possible on stock ECU or will I have to invest in a Piggyback/standalone? I'd like to keep my Autobox so if I ran a Piggy back/standalone it will have to be compatible with this. In terms of fuelling will I need to upgrade my injectors at this level of boost? If so how big? Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 It is possible but the fueling won't be setup correctly for the boost map. Not at all recommended to run your car like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 It'll be fine.... Off boost at low revs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraiFlash Posted August 13, 2011 Author Share Posted August 13, 2011 It is possible but the fueling won't be setup correctly for the boost map. Not at all recommended to run your car like this. Ok bud. Some guys in the US ran thier cars with stock ecu and fueling at low boost levels but upgraded to piggybacks(map ecu II) when they wanted to up the boost. I dont want to go big single or anything, just looking at replacing my stock turbo setup when they go. I just want a super quick spooling single setup only at BPU levels really. It'll be fine.... Off boost at low revs! Thanks for the valuable input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Ok bud. Some guys in the US ran thier cars with stock ecu and fueling at low boost levels but upgraded to piggybacks(map ecu II) when they wanted to up the boost. I dont want to go big single or anything, just looking at replacing my stock turbo setup when they go. I just want a super quick spooling single setup only at BPU levels really. Thanks for the valuable input Yeah I've seen that, but they are running the risk of blowing their engine... and they probably know that. It won't run safely or ideal in any shape or form. In the back of their minds they will know this so probably drive their cars very carefully, even though with bravado they will say differently. To cane your car about with a changed turbo is mental. Think about the power graph of a TT. The stock map is set to run fairly rich, hence why we get away with BPU. It has a double hump, the stock ECU is mapped along this double hump. To remove the tts and replace with a single would change that pattern considerably. This will mean lean parts of the map and rich parts of the map. Running very lean or very rich is very dangerous. This is also the reason TTC mode isn't recommended. Where the 1st turbo would normally be spooling the car will run VERY rich. It will then run lean at the switchover as the turbos will spool that little bit quicker than in sequential. Basically don't do it. Even running at stock levels you run the risk. If you want to go small single just get a piggyback ECU. You can use that with the stock injectors etc. The total price for a piggyback including mapping etc would probably be around £600. Better safe than sorry. When you want more power you can simply change over the injectors & fuel pump and you are good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraiFlash Posted August 13, 2011 Author Share Posted August 13, 2011 (edited) Thats great info scott, thanks for that I get it now In your opinion what other supporting mods will I need to add to the list below to run between 400-430hp? 1. PHR stage 1 Turbo kit 2. Emanage Ultimate Piggyback (is a Mines ECU for an Auto TT applicable on a small single?) Edited August 13, 2011 by SamuraiFlash (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Thats great info scott, thanks for that I get it now In your opinion what other supporting mods will I need to add to the list below to run between 400-430hp? 1. PHR stage 1 Turbo kit 2. Emanage Ultimate Piggyback (is a Mines ECU for an Auto TT applicable on a small single?) That is the bare minimum. If you are going from BPU to those power levels you will be fine with just that. If you are going from stock TT I would throw in double decats, fuel pump & all the other BPU parts that go along with it. Something to add to the list would definitely be an AFR gauge, just so that you can keep an eye on your map and how well it's working The injectors will handle the power levels you are looking at, you just need the ECU to tell them what to do and when to do it Mines ECU is a modified stock map, it will have exactly the same pattern of boost so will have exactly the same issues. In fact it will be even more dangerous as the mines map is a little leaner, making the lean spots of the map even leaner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraiFlash Posted August 13, 2011 Author Share Posted August 13, 2011 That is the bare minimum. If you are going from BPU to those power levels you will be fine with just that. If you are going from stock TT I would throw in double decats, fuel pump & all the other BPU parts that go along with it. Something to add to the list would definitely be an AFR gauge, just so that you can keep an eye on your map and how well it's working The injectors will handle the power levels you are looking at, you just need the ECU to tell them what to do and when to do it Mines ECU is a modified stock map, it will have exactly the same pattern of boost so will have exactly the same issues. In fact it will be even more dangerous as the mines map is a little leaner, making the lean spots of the map even leaner. I'm not running BPU at the moment, I have the BPU parts sourced from a fellow member. Thanks for the advice Scott, its appeciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Some guys in the US ran thier cars with stock ecu and fueling Do you have a USA (or UK) spec Supra? What you might be able to get away with while running a single turbo set up on US/UK fuelling is not the same as somebody could run on j-spec fuelling. J-spec fuelling is marginal at BPU level, beyond BPU ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraiFlash Posted August 13, 2011 Author Share Posted August 13, 2011 Do you have a USA (or UK) spec Supra? What you might be able to get away with while running a single turbo set up on US/UK fuelling is not the same as somebody could run on j-spec fuelling. J-spec fuelling is marginal at BPU level, beyond BPU ... Thats a good point mate, as the guys who replied to the thread on Supra forums regarding this topic had US spec cars. My car is a Jspec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Do you have a USA (or UK) spec Supra? What you might be able to get away with while running a single turbo set up on US/UK fuelling is not the same as somebody could run on j-spec fuelling. J-spec fuelling is marginal at BPU level, beyond BPU ... That's a good point. Add to that the fact that Jspecs can only safely run Vpower (to stop knock etc from happening) messing with the turbo without adjusting the map will be more dangerous than with exports. At least with the UK specs the map is for 95ron, changing the turbos to single and running vpower will give a little more headroom. I still wouldn't fancy it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted August 13, 2011 Share Posted August 13, 2011 Thats a good point mate, as the guys who replied to the thread on Supra forums regarding this topic had US spec cars. My car is a Jspec. Exactly. While 550cc injectors might be able to adequately supply a small single, asking the same from 440cc J-spec injectors is unrealistic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 As someone who's done it, yes you can. My EGTs and AFRs were perfectly fine. Can you do it, yes. Is it recommended, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraiFlash Posted August 14, 2011 Author Share Posted August 14, 2011 As someone who's done it, yes you can. My EGTs and AFRs were perfectly fine. Can you do it, yes. Is it recommended, no. Hi swampy, did you do this on your aristo or a uk spec supra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 So what if you used a single turbo that flowed the same amount of air as stock twins ???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 So what if you used a single turbo that flowed the same amount of air as stock twins ???? Wouldn't a single that did flow 420bhp come in a lot sooner, a lot harder, with more air around 2500-3500rpm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sams Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 So what if you used a single turbo that flowed the same amount of air as stock twins ???? i was thinking similar: as surely running a small single would act the same as the stock turbo's running together instead of sequential (if boost is same levels as stock/bpu) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Thats great info scott, thanks for that I get it now In your opinion what other supporting mods will I need to add to the list below to run between 400-430hp? 1. PHR stage 1 Turbo kit 2. Emanage Ultimate Piggyback (is a Mines ECU for an Auto TT applicable on a small single?) The stock clutch would struggle with the power delivery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 i was thinking similar: as surely running a small single would act the same as the stock turbo's running together instead of sequential (if boost is same levels as stock/bpu) The PHR street kit should be a lot more responsive than the stock turbos running in parallel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Wouldn't a single that did flow 420bhp come in a lot sooner, a lot harder, with more air around 2500-3500rpm? That would depend on AR and wheel size etc, the twins come on pretty quick and ive had some that come on really hard, if you were only looking to make 400 hp on a baby single at say .6 bar then who knows !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Wouldn't a single that did flow 420bhp come in a lot sooner, a lot harder, with more air around 2500-3500rpm? Yup, a single turbo will always be far more efficient than the stock twins. Of course due to this efficiency the charge will be a lot cooler giving a bit more headroom regarding the fuel etc. It's all guesswork though, for the sake of a few hundered anyone doing this is as well with a piggyback. The stock injectors can easily handle that power, they just need tweaked a little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraiFlash Posted August 14, 2011 Author Share Posted August 14, 2011 The stock clutch would struggle with the power delivery. I always thought the TT Autobox with a ATF cooler will be ok at BPU levels of power? Is this not the case Nic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 I always thought the TT Autobox with a ATF cooler will be ok at BPU levels of power? Is this not the case Nic? Nic means the clutch in a stock manual box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 Hi swampy, did you do this on your aristo or a uk spec supra? On my Aristo The car had a fuel pressure reg and a big flow fuel pump so there was enough fuel to cope with it, the biggest prob was boost cut. But I never once had a problem with fuel ratio or temps. Like I said its very doabe but not recommended Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted August 14, 2011 Share Posted August 14, 2011 The stock ECU runs 13:1 AFRs below 4000rpm. If, under load conditions, you suddenly have one big turbo hoofing out a bar of boost at 3000rpm instead of one tiddler running 0.6bar, I don't think it'll be a happy result at those lean fuelling levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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