Adam W Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Does anyone have the foggiest idea of how to read these things? I understand the concept of them but I have no idea how they work! My Mk3 needs a bigger turbo, and I'm thinking of this one (T04E, "60 trim" whatever that means) http://64.225.76.178/catalog/compmaps/Fig16.gif Three litre engine, running to 6500rpm, 20-25psi boost, no backpressure, built bottom end with plenty of fuel system . . . if any more info is required I'll try and provide it! Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Adam.... I can't read them either, but going by the http://www.turbofast.com.au it looks like it runs less power than a Garrett T-61. Now an SP60 can run about 550-580RWHP. So I'm guessing this Turbo the T04E is a 460-500RWHP turbo. Does that help? What I don't know is what the Pressure Ratio equates to in psi or bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted January 23, 2003 Share Posted January 23, 2003 Adam, This turbo will shift about 35lb/min of air, at 2.3-2.4 whatever's (they don't say the units, possibly bar, but seems a bit high?), running the turbo at 96k-105k rpm. That centre bit is your efficiency island. Whatever you do with this turbo, you want to keep it's parameters in that area. The lateral curve lines are turbine rpm. I don't know a lot about these graphs, but I do know the middle bit = good. For example, a stock MkIV likkle turbo at 20+psi would be somewhere north of the efficiency island, meaning the pressure is higher, but the flow of air is not, the turbo speed is too high, and the %efficiency is dropping all the time. Anyone who actually knows what they are talking about is free to take the ack-ack gun to this and shoot it down -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOR Racing Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 My 2p........ You can't do any worse than buy the following book and read about it. "Maximum Boost" by Corky Bell. (Bently Publishers) ISBN 0-8376-0160-6 Cost $35 (and I got mine through amazon I think?) It discusses how to design (or select) the correct turbo system for your car. A good read but too much info to put simply on this forum (or to scan in!) Regards Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 I hear other people who pop up on this list have that book and quote it a lot -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Have a nose at this : http://www.turboneticsinc.com/guidelines.html Borg.....get reading;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Heh - I've gone one better than that - I've just ordered: 1 "Supercharging, Turbocharging, & Nitrous Oxide Performance Handbook (Powerpro)" Earl Davis, Diane Davis; Paperback; @ $13.97 each --------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 "Maximum Boost: Designing, Testing, and Installing Turbocharger Systems" Corky Bell; Paperback; @ $24.47 each --------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 "Turbochargers" Hugh MacInnes; Paperback; @ $12.57 each Yum yum yum. Of course, I shall investigate your link as well, Mr. S! -Ian PS what do you call an injured Borg? Half of One Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Originally posted by Ian C Heh - I've gone one better than that - I've just ordered: 1 "Supercharging, Turbocharging, & Nitrous Oxide Performance Handbook (Powerpro)" Earl Davis, Diane Davis; Paperback; @ $13.97 each --------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 "Maximum Boost: Designing, Testing, and Installing Turbocharger Systems" Corky Bell; Paperback; @ $24.47 each --------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 "Turbochargers" Hugh MacInnes; Paperback; @ $12.57 each Yum yum yum. Of course, I shall investigate your link as well, Mr. S! -Ian PS what do you call an injured Borg? Half of One Now you are beginning to scare me. Your Mrs must lead an exciting life! At least you will be a good source of info........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 You need to work out the airflow at various RPM & relate that to the compressor map Adam. See: http://www.moreboost.org/tmp/turbo.xls Steve Vache ( his site is a great info source BTW) has worked out the Air Flow Vs RPM for the 2JZ-GTE engine. I don't honestly know how the MK3 engine relates regarding flow. This is the info you need to accurately work the map out. Happy Hunting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 ooohhh......look at this http://home.attbi.com/~hyc/dyno/turbosize.xls Change the numbers & presto, even has the T04E "40" on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Originally posted by Ian C Heh - I've gone one better than that - I've just ordered: 1 "Supercharging, Turbocharging, & Nitrous Oxide Performance Handbook (Powerpro)" Earl Davis, Diane Davis; Paperback; @ $13.97 each --------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 "Maximum Boost: Designing, Testing, and Installing Turbocharger Systems" Corky Bell; Paperback; @ $24.47 each --------------------------------------------------------------------- 1 "Turbochargers" Hugh MacInnes; Paperback; @ $12.57 each -Ian PS what do you call an injured Borg? Half of One I've got all of them so ner...... I've also got 'Automotive Supercharging & Turbocharging Manual' as well. Hardback. John D. Humphries. ISBN 0-85429-880-0. Worth getting. I've also got what I'm sure is another PowerPro book which is similar to the Earl Davis one you list above but is purely based on N2O. Again, worth getting. Actually, I've got 2 copies of the 'Turbochargers' book by Hugh. Have you already ordered yours? I'm happy to let you have one for nowt if you want. Cheers, Nathan TDI PLC PS I've just realised I've got another one called 'The Auto Math Handbook' which is real handy too. I can try and find the ISBN if you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Originally posted by Nathan I've got all of them so ner...... I've also got 'Automotive Supercharging & Turbocharging Manual' as well. Hardback. John D. Humphries. ISBN 0-85429-880-0. Worth getting. I've also got what I'm sure is another PowerPro book which is similar to the Earl Davis one you list above but is purely based on N2O. Again, worth getting. Actually, I've got 2 copies of the 'Turbochargers' book by Hugh. Have you already ordered yours? I'm happy to let you have one for nowt if you want. Cheers, Nathan TDI PLC PS I've just realised I've got another one called 'The Auto Math Handbook' which is real handy too. I can try and find the ISBN if you want. Great....... but what about some technical input:p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THOR Racing Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Do any of those books teach you how to calculate engine parameters. i.e. essentials on how to build an ECU Basics of engine control and formulas for working the fuel ratio and ignition timing out etc etc? Sorry no technical input here Terry. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Originally posted by Terry S Great....... but what about some technical input:p LOL! Well, I could quote directly from books but as Ian C says the list has been through all that...usually from Corky's book... Explaining maps is not trivial as I'm sure you know. I think directing people to a source (an abundant one at that) of extremely relative information is the only real way foward. Besides, some of us have work to do Cheers Nathan TDI PLC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Pete I found a list of Motorsport publications the other day with so really good stuff on. I'll see if I can find it again. Don't hold your breathe............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Originally posted by TRL Performance Do any of those books teach you how to calculate engine parameters. i.e. essentials on how to build an ECU Pete Nope. Sorry Pete, never had to 'go there' so can't help Regards, Nathan TDI PLC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Cheers for the offer, Nathan, but I've already ordered them from the US (£40 instead of £55, hurrah!) My Mrs must lead an exciting life because she hasn't met me yet -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Some women are just plain dumb:innocent: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Need4Speed Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Ian You have two weeks to read them then we'll be asking questions and will expect you to know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Two weeks from now or two weeks from them actually getting delivered? Terry - she would be dumb to hitch up with me, all I do is read books about turbos! -Ian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith C Posted January 24, 2003 Share Posted January 24, 2003 Originally posted by Nathan Besides, some of us have work to do Oi - we'll have none of that language on here I'll take that book off your hands if you want Nathan Maybe I could actually learn something then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Originally posted by Keith C Oi - we'll have none of that language on here I'll take that book off your hands if you want Nathan Maybe I could actually learn something then No worries Keith- send me your address off-list and I'll whizz it in the post Monday for you. Cheers, Nathan TDI PLC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Originally posted by Nathan I've also got what I'm sure is another PowerPro book which is similar to the Earl Davis one you list above but is purely based on N2O. Again, worth getting. PS I've just realised I've got another one called 'The Auto Math Handbook' which is real handy too. I can try and find the ISBN if you want. ISBN numbers for these two would be great please. Any other good ones to get? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Originally posted by Syed Shah ISBN numbers for these two would be great please. OK, will try and dig them out tonight and will let you know Monday hopefully. Any other good ones to get? Probably, but I'd better not tell you any more in case Terry gets on my case again for not providing enough technical input...... Cheers Nathan TDI PLC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syed Shah Posted January 25, 2003 Share Posted January 25, 2003 Cheers mate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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