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Best choice for Wideband and AFR display?


Jake

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I'm now cruising about in my '93 RZ like 'Driving Miss Daisy' because I'm worried about blowing another engine up. After reading a few folk's opinions in another thread I think a wideband O2 sensor and AFR display would be a worthwhile investment.

I'd ideally like one that can display and datalog on my GReddy PRofec e-01. The e-01 has a much better dsplay than any of the 52mm or 60mm gauges I've seen.

 

If I recall correctly, the last time this subject came up there was a problem because the output from most WB sensors is not linear and this makes it unsuitable for use with a third-party display - like the GReddy e-01.

 

Any suggestions for a suitable solution?

 

Thanks!

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Innovate Motorsports LC-1 Standalone Gauge Kit

 

I just bought it.... LOTS of features and the big tuners swear by it!

 

A lot of people have been trading out their AEM's for this unit over the pond..

 

I would not try and buy a setup just because it hooks up with what you have.. You wont get a very good choice if you limit yourself down at this level!

 

http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Templates/frmTemplateH.asp?SubFolderID=928&SearchYN=N

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Guest Terry S

LOL the Autronic B type analyser, but how much do you have to spend Jake;)

 

The AEM work well enough for what they are. I have 2 x widebands in the car, and an Autronic analyser, but so far the AEM has been accurate enough to get most of my attention, as its nice neat and easy to read.

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After reading Jake's other post, I too am now concerned about fueling probs etc as I'm running @ BPU+

 

The gauges I have already are: Blitz Power id (for its toys) + Blitz EBC SBC VII thingy as my boost controller (also linked to the Power id)

 

I also have a Blitz EGT guage installed.

 

What your saying now is, I should also (for safety) install a AFR & wideband etc ?

 

People opinions on what they have / recommend would be nice...

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EGT Gauge is good but if anything does go wrong it will be like having a gauge that says you should have taken your foot off the accelerator 30 seconds ago..

 

Its just to slow if you have a pump faliure or some other sort of catastrophic faliure which will make the car run lean and kill your pistons..

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Innovate Motorsports LC-1 Standalone Gauge Kit

 

I just bought it.... LOTS of features and the big tuners swear by it!

 

A lot of people have been trading out their AEM's for this unit over the pond..

 

I would not try and buy a setup just because it hooks up with what you have.. You wont get a very good choice if you limit yourself down at this level!

 

http://www.mvpmotorsports.com/Templates/frmTemplateH.asp?SubFolderID=928&SearchYN=N

 

I have just finished installing my Innovate XD1/LC1 system. Superb bit of kit BUT for datalogging it won't work without the LM1 'brain', although software (Logworks 2.0) is about to be released allowing direct datalog with just the LC1.

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The AEM wideband comes with the controller inside the body of the gauge. You can adjust the output to suit various uses too.

Replacement sensors are from Thor half the price of a replacement Toyota narrowband (last time I checked).

 

Very happy with it.

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The problem with the AEM gauges/sensors is that they output a non-linear signal as Jake says, and the E01 only allows you to put in a high and low value, so is only accurate with linear signals. I have my AEM wired to the Emanage AND the E01. That allows me to use a laptop to log accurate AFRs from the Emanage, and also the display on the E01 to give a rough idea of what's going on. It would at least tell you something was very wrong if the pressure reg hose came off for example.

 

I believe the FJO sensor can be set up to have a linear output - that's what the info on their website says but I haven't got one so I couldn't say for sure. Here is the FJO website.

 

As for installation, if you have a Chris Wilson 2nd decat pipe they have a port for a WB sensor, so you just screw it in. There is no calibration needed - all the sensors have a calibrated resistor that means they output the same signal to the controller, and the controllers are calibrated too.

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The problem with the AEM gauges/sensors is that they output a non-linear signal as Jake says, .

I'm not sure if we're talking about the same product.

mine has 4 different settings, from 0-5V linear to 0-1V nonlinear (NB simulation).

You choose what output you want (if any, you can just use it as a gauge)

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I'm not sure if we're talking about the same product.

mine has 4 different settings, from 0-5V linear to 0-1V nonlinear (NB simulation).

You choose what output you want (if any, you can just use it as a gauge)

 

Well, I have the one without a gauge, which has a non-linear 0-5v and a NB sim output. I thought the one with a gauge used to have a non-linear output too, I've got the curve for it somewhere. However, I've just had a look on the AEM forum, looks like they've changed it:-

 

Configuring Calibration Outputs

If a different O2 sensor calibration is desired, the AEM calibration can be changed to one of three available. The AEM default position is (P0) if an AFR Gauge was purchased and (P1) if a Lambda Gauge was purchased. These settings implement a linear calibration with the most useful voltage range possible (0-5V). The AFR calibration (P2) is linear and similar to (P1) with a slightly smaller voltage range (1-2V). The AFR calibration (P3) emulates the Autronic Wideband O2 Sensor calibration (0-1V). The AFR calibration (P4) emulates a non-linear Nernst Cell calibration (0-1V). Refer to the Table and Graph for specific calibration details

 

So that looks perfect for the job!

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It also looks like AEM have released a separate gauge for use with the UEGO controller that I have that comes without a gauge. This also has the same linear output from what I can gather, so people with this (i.e. me!) could buy the gauge and hook up the E01 via that rather than direct.

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...and only £913 at my local Motec dealer !

Not cheap, but i use it nearly every day and it interfaces seamlessly with Motec ecus, which i tend to use. Can datalog from it and run Quick Lambda which speeds base mixture set up no end. Get what you pay for, blah blah, is very true of wide band stuff. There are a lot cheaper systems, but having everything Motec can be a real boon, time wise. Years ago i bought a Horiba laboratory gas analyser from Rolls Royce. people said i was mad, too dear, et cetera, but over the years it has never gone wrong, still holds calibration 15 years down the line, and has hummed quietly on the bench whilst colleagues have F'd and blinded at lesser gas analysers which were playing up, broken, or awaiting spares from some flung corner of the globe.

 

Something cheaper, but still very competent is:

 

http://www.mrm-racing.a.se/English/MRM_lambda.htm

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This all a little too technical for me as I'm not at all familiar with these gizmos yet.

Simon, Are you saying there is a product that I can use to show A/FRs on my e-01 display without needing to have a seperate gauge? 'Cos that what I'm looking for!

I like my e-01 and I don't want any additional gauges if poss.

 

Thanks.

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This all a little too technical for me as I'm not at all familiar with these gizmos yet.

Simon, Are you saying there is a product that I can use to show A/FRs on my e-01 display without needing to have a seperate gauge? 'Cos that what I'm looking for!

I like my e-01 and I don't want any additional gauges if poss.

 

Thanks.

 

I think the FJO might do, I think you can buy it without the gauge, but I don't know too much about it other than what's on their website. The AEM one that comes without the gauge is no good, you need the one with the gauge. I suppose you could just hide the gauge somewhere.

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The O2 sensor itself is half the story, you also need interpretation hardware. The AEM 30-4xxx series actually have the interpretation electronics built into the gauge, so you won't be getting one of those if you don't want a gauge :) The 30-230x series is a seperate module with optional gauge. These are better than the gauge versions anyway, as despite using the same sensor, they are calibrated to give much more resolution between stoich and rich (4v worth) and can read down to 8.5:1 afrs. The gauge ones only give 2.5v around that area and a really rather uselessly large 2.5v between stoich and lean. All the gauge ones I've seen can't read below about 11.4:1 afr anyway, which is a bit shit for mapping but still perfectly OK for monitoring.

 

You know, Jake, you could just monitor the voltage on the E-01 and memorise what's good and bad...? Not as daft as it sounds, you don't need 0.01afr accuracy while driving, so if you know 4v is 14.6:1 (stoich), 3.5v is 13.0, 3v is 12.0, and 2.5v is 11.2, you know you want to see 2.5v and 3.0v while booting it. Easy :) See attached piccy for the 30-230x voltage-afr table for an idea of what to expect.

 

-Ian

o2config.jpg

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The AEM one that comes without the gauge is no good, you need the one with the gauge. I suppose you could just hide the gauge somewhere.

 

OK, that flatly contradicts everything I just said, but I backed up my thoughts on why the one without the gauge is actually better :D Fight fight! ;)

 

-Ian

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