Finding Out About History of a Property?

[dandan]

Bit of an odd question but wondered if anyone here could help point me in the direction of some info....

 

 

I'm looking at buying an old property that was originally build in the mid 19th century and am trying to find out more about its history. I know that several, almost identical, buildings in the area were rebuilt in the 1960s but have only found that out by accident after sifting through planning applications on those properties for recent work in the last few years.

 

Short of ripping the render off the walls or digging down to look for footings etc etc, is there any way I can find out if the property I am interested in was ever rebuilt? Would this be recorded anywhere that can be accessed by the public?

 

Thanks

Dan

[Charlotte]

If the property has a registered title go to:- http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/

 

To find out about a particular property you will need house number/postcode and the 'official copy entries'. If there are any other associated documents with the title deeds they will be able to be ordered too but you will see what has happened to the property since original build.

 

If the property isn't registered (few and far between now but sometimes people still hold their own deeds and documents) then it will be a bit more tricky.

[dandan]

Thank you Charlotte. I already have a copy of the Title Register and Title Plan but they are of limited use. I can see the plot outline and current owner and the price they paid but that is it.

 

Is that all that is available or can I dig deeper now that I have those?

[Charlotte]

Is anything stated on the property register section of the OCEs (section A)? This normally refers to any planning documents (and their date) that may be attached to the title. Although it sounds like you may have already done that searching....

[dandan]

Section A has one line item which refers to the "red edged" boundary area on the plan being filed at the registry. There's nothing else in that section.

[Charlotte]

Hmmm. I suspect a further enquiry to the planning office is going to be your best bet as it doesn't appear any old deeds have been 'filed' with the title deed. If there were no restrictions on the property from when/if any building work was carried out then there would be no need for any docs to be registered.

 

It's a real shame actually. We used to get tons of old documents and deeds coming through our office but often they had no relevance and were given to the new owners to keep if they wanted to.

 

Sorry, I haven't really been much help!

[SupraAyf]

Hey Dan,

 

We did the same on our house mate and it was really quite interesting to discover the history. We suspected that our house was built circa 1890 - 1915 when we bought it but we had no way of telling since the construction date of a house does not need to be submitted on the building deeds. This was a bit of a bummer so my wife decided to investigate its history by using the local County Council Archives office in Durham - and what a wealth of information was retrieved after only 3 or 4 visits. (She had to book the material she wanted to see prior to each visit though).

 

Basically, my wife used the Census system to check who was living in the house, and when, during the various different census inspection periods. You are probably aware of the following (cut and pasted from Wikipedia I may add):

 

"Coincident full censuses have taken place in the different jurisdictions of the United Kingdom every ten years since 1801 with the exceptions of 1941 (during the Second World War) and in both Northern Ireland and the Irish Free State in 1921; simultaneous censuses were taken in the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man with the returns being archived with those of England. In addition to providing a wealth of interesting information about aspects of the make-up of the country, the results of the census play an important part in the calculation of resource allocation to regional and local service providers, by governments in the United Kingdom and European Union levels".

 

Armed with this info, my wife now has a full list of occupants during the life of the house, too date, their occupations, and the numbers in the family at the time the records were taken. Also, it is worthy of note that accompanying any census statistics is normally a map of the area which is associated with each 10-year census; meaning that you can identify just how the profile of your village/town changed over the years.

 

Good luck mate,

 

Andrew

[Chris Wilson]

Best bet is to try and locate the old title deeds. luckily we have those for our bungalow, as it was buily on the site of an old small holding, and we even have photos of how it once was. those that say they are living in poverty in the UK should see how some country workers lived in the 1700's. Even today there are people round the country who have never been out of the county they were born in, and who have never had an inside loo, or a dedicated bathroom, it's quite surprising.

 

The problem with title deeds is they get lodged at various solicitors over the years and then solicitors amalgamate or close, and records get lost, destroyed or forgotten about. My late father owned some land in Holt, in Wales, and kept meaning to go and look at it. Then he realized the deeds were lost (my father and mother had a penchant for falling out with, and changing solicitors like I change my socks), so I now lie in bed wondering if Tesco owe me 3 million for building on land I own but can't find

 

There's a lot of info out there, as people are pointing out, more than I thought, I suppose it's how determined you are to follow it all up.

 

Which all makes me wonder, where did I put those bloody deeds....?

[Charlotte]

My late father owned some land in Holt, in Wales, and kept meaning to go and look at it. Then he realized the deeds were lost (my father and mother had a penchant for falling out with, and changing solicitors like I change my socks), so I now lie in bed wondering if Tesco owe me 3 million for building on land I own but can't find

 

I suspect someone will have possessory title of that land from long ago. I'm sure that makes you rest easier.

[Chris Wilson]

I did have a look for it but it came to nothing. It was apparently known locally as the Bible Land. As you say, someone will have ring fenced it, cursorily maintained it, and taken possession. *astards

[dandan]

Thanks guys, I've been doing a a fair bit of searching around on various properties since you posted up......Chris' story sparked even more interest

 

Can anyone (I'm guessing Charlotte ) help with a couple more questions:

 

1. If a bank is listed in Section C of the title as the most recent proprietor, does that mean the obvious...repossession?

2. There's a note in section B that says "No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court" What does that actually mean?

[Chris Wilson]

Almost certainly a repossession. Mortgage arrears or foreclosure.

 

There's a Lien on it, whoever is owed money has a title to it, or a lender has title. A court has basically stopped "a person" from selling and doing a runner.

[Charlotte]

Thanks guys, I've been doing a a fair bit of searching around on various properties since you posted up......Chris' story sparked even more interest

 

Can anyone (I'm guessing Charlotte ) help with a couple more questions:

 

1. If a bank is listed in Section C of the title as the most recent proprietor, does that mean the obvious...repossession?

2. There's a note in section B that says "No disposition by a sole proprietor of the registered estate (except a trust corporation) under which capital money arises is to be registered unless authorised by an order of the court" What does that actually mean?

 

1. - not repossession, just that they have the latest charge over the property (section C is the charges register not the proprietorship register if that makes sense). When the property is registered you have to register the house as 'taking a charge' for the lender unless of course you were a cash buyer. That just means their charge is there until the mortgage is paid.

 

2. Point 1 in the proprietorship register (section B) should state who owns the property - I suspect it's two people and that they own it as joint tenants which is actually what that paragraph relates to - one can't sell the house without the other, unless one dies then a trustee can act on their behalf.

 

Hope that helps

[dandan]

Great, thanks guys - it's making a bit more sense now, I appreciate the help.

 

The proprietors are listed in section B and there are two of them as you said - all the dates in section B are the same (2008).

 

There are two items in section C and the first is the registered charge. The second line item mentions the bank as per my previous post. The odd(?) thing is that they bought the place in 2008 but the part about the bank (in section C) is dated at the end of 2011. Does that mean they could have simply changed lenders at that time?

[Charlotte]

There are two items in section C and the first is the registered charge. The second line item mentions the bank as per my previous post. The odd(?) thing is that they bought the place in 2008 but the part about the bank (in section C) is dated at the end of 2011. Does that mean they could have simply changed lenders at that time?

 

They've either taken out a second charge (with the same bank if it's the same bank that's listed)? Or they've remortgaged so charge has been updated.

[dandan]

There's only one bank listed and it is at that later date. Maybe they bought it outright initially and then mortgaged to do some rennovation work? (It is in the middle of being extended and moderised).

[Charlotte]

There's only one bank listed and it is at that later date. Maybe they bought it outright initially and then mortgaged to do some rennovation work? (It is in the middle of being extended and moderised).

 

Could definitely be that or just a simple remortgage - because that would effectively be a new charge.

[Chris Wilson]

I'll stick to cars before I get sued....

[dandan]

Could definitely be that or just a simple remortgage - because that would effectively be a new charge.

 

Thanks Charlotte.

 

I'll stick to cars before I get sued....

 

Thanks Chris.