BodyBuilding/Weight training ?

[Jamesy]

Guess so, also luck I never get water retention, as they kick in more day by day im just getting more ripped and im not even eating clean (gotta love a Kentucky)

 

im not too jealous!! Im just gonna label you a freak John

[Geo]

Lol .... But How do you enjoy the chronic back ache mate?

 

I don't seem to get any James, but I do take a lot of Milk Thistle and water so maybe thats the key.

 

all comes down to the individual guys, some get bad sides others others dont get sides at all.

[Attero]

I've start doing some light weight training. Not looking for a massive build, would rather lose weight and tone up a bit. A little bit of arm muscle wouldn't be so bad either.

 

Got a gym induction, part 3 of 5 in an hour. Been to the gym 5 times and it feels great.

[Septic]

I'll confuse you more by telling you that it's more about the *rate* of exercise than the *absolute length* in determining how likely you are to achieve beta oxidation ("fat burning"). This is because intramuscular respiration (i.e. the liberation of energy) from fat stores requires oxygen in order to be most efficient - therefore you need to be able to match oxygen intake with oxygen requirements for beta oxidation. The higher the rate of energy demand, the less likely you are to match oxygen intake with oxygen demand, so faster methods including glycolysis are also required. Additionally, the greater the lean muscle component, the greater the beta oxidation even at rest (i.e. more muscle burns more fat, even without exercising) because it is the preferred method of respiration.

 

However, to muddy the waters even further, high intensity exercise (e.g. high intensity interval training or HIIT) will burn MORE fat overall than purely slow rate oxidative metabolism (even though beta oxidation will burn fat stores almost exclusively) because the total energy production is generated from more sources simultaneously (beta oxidation + glycolysis + ATP cycling etc).

 

[sdistc]

http://panzercrush.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/mind-blown.jpg

 

haha sorry! Don't worry about this academic stuff, it's really not that important because I think people get too confused about where weight loss happens... it happens AFTER the gym, not during.

 

Your workout is to increase your body's metabolic rate, both by increasing the "metabolic machinery" (i.e. the amount of muscle to burn fat) and by increasing the rate at which your body is burning fat at rest.

[Septic]

haha sorry! Don't worry about this academic stuff, it's really not that important because I think people get too confused about where weight loss happens... it happens AFTER the gym, not during.

 

Your workout is to increase your body's metabolic rate, both by increasing the "metabolic machinery" (i.e. the amount of muscle to burn fat) and by increasing the rate at which your body is burning fat at rest.

 

Andrew, I'm trying to get the basics right and you hit with me that info! I appreciate it though

 

I'm enjoying the gym man. It's addictive- I train to failure every day now.

 

My triceps are so weak though- I can't do a single dip!

 

By the way, is there a place where you can eat out and eat healthy? I think Nandos was the closest thing I could come up with.

 

By the way, do you guys feel the pump?

 

drioQ137NhA

[Geo]

Andrew, I'm trying to get the basics right and you hit with me that info! I appreciate it though

 

I'm enjoying the gym man. It's addictive- I train to failure every day now.

 

My triceps are so weak though- I can't do a single dip!

 

By the way, is there a place where you can eat out and eat healthy? I think Nandos was the closest thing I could come up with.

 

By the way, do you guys feel the pump?

 

drioQ137NhA

 

Dont over think training, get into the gym ''HAVE FUN'' and blast the muscle your training.

 

Aaaaah! The Pump can't beat it, if you can't get your pump on? try dropping the weight and doing a higher rep range.

 

Nando's is by far the cleanest Fast food you can have.

[sdistc]

Andrew, I'm trying to get the basics right and you hit with me that info! I appreciate it though

 

I'm enjoying the gym man. It's addictive- I train to failure every day now.

 

My triceps are so weak though- I can't do a single dip!

 

By the way, is there a place where you can eat out and eat healthy? I think Nandos was the closest thing I could come up with.

 

By the way, do you guys feel the pump?

 

In my humble opinion, the most important thing is training hard - near to absolute failure or absolute failure if you have a reliable spotter. I'm very anal about technique, so although intensity is paramount, you cannot apply maximum intensity until you can perfect the movement - i.e. using the muscles you are intending to train, correctly.

 

You also have to eat hard, and sleep hard - especially if you're starting from a relatively thin beginning, because most likely you have a faster metabolism.

[Benjy]

Your workout is to increase your body's metabolic rate, both by increasing the "metabolic machinery" (i.e. the amount of muscle to burn fat) and by increasing the rate at which your body is burning fat at rest.

 

I got some chemical help for that too lol

 

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone

[Septic]

In my humble opinion, the most important thing is training hard - near to absolute failure or absolute failure if you have a reliable spotter. I'm very anal about technique, so although intensity is paramount, you cannot apply maximum intensity until you can perfect the movement - i.e. using the muscles you are intending to train, correctly.

 

You also have to eat hard, and sleep hard - especially if you're starting from a relatively thin beginning, because most likely you have a faster metabolism.

 

You're absolutely right. I have a good spotter so I train to absolute failure. Perfecting movement is a learning curve and I am getting better the more I train. Saturday was brilliant- I did my tricpes then shoulders (man was it tough to do shoulders after maxing out on triceps) and I trained to failure every time. My shoulders and triceps like hell but it feels great.

 

Legs today! (Geo's workout plan )

 

"Aaaaah! The Pump can't beat it, if you can't get your pump on? try dropping the weight and doing a higher rep range."

 

I don't get this pump thing. I literally reached my limit in all of my exercises- there was more pain than pleasure. Surely I don't have to be a sado-masochist to enjoy this feeling?

[sdistc]

I don't get this pump thing. I literally reached my limit in all of my exercises- there was more pain than pleasure. Surely I don't have to be a sado-masochist to enjoy this feeling?

 

You don't have to be a masochist, but it helps It's usually the growth (i.e. success of your program shown by progress) and the feeling of strength that becomes addictive, so you slowly become used to (and even enjoy) the pain.. because you know it's making you grow.

[Septic]

You don't have to be a masochist, but it helps It's usually the growth (i.e. success of your program shown by progress) and the feeling of strength that becomes addictive, so you slowly become used to (and even enjoy) the pain.. because you know it's making you grow.

 

I know its early days but I feel built already with my stiff shoulders and chest. I can see this becoming addictive- the whole diet thing and workout routine. Soon I'll be 'coming' in the gym, coming at home (thank you left hand)- coming day and night!

[Geo]

I know its early days but I feel built already with my stiff shoulders and chest. I can see this becoming addictive- the whole diet thing and workout routine. Soon I'll be 'coming' in the gym, coming at home (thank you left hand)- coming day and night!

 

Not after legs you won't, if you do em right your head will be down the pan,

[Septic]

Not after legs you won't, if you do em right your head will be down the pan,

 

Funny you say this- a few months ago I did the leg press thing (that machine that looks like a vice and I had 180-200kg weights on) and I was so close to passing out and throwing up. Horrible feeling. I DO NOT want to go through that again!

[mikeyb10supra]

Funny you say this- a few months ago I did the leg press thing (that machine that looks like a vice and I had 180-200kg weights on) and I was so close to passing out and throwing up. Horrible feeling. I DO NOT want to go through that again!

 

try 20 rep squats or 5x5 squats that makes the leg press look like a sissy's machine

[Tannhauser]

In my humble opinion, the most important thing is training hard - near to absolute failure or absolute failure if you have a reliable spotter. I'm very anal about technique, so although intensity is paramount, you cannot apply maximum intensity until you can perfect the movement - i.e. using the muscles you are intending to train, correctly.

 

You also have to eat hard, and sleep hard - especially if you're starting from a relatively thin beginning, because most likely you have a faster metabolism.

 

I respectfully disagree with the need to train to failure. Powerlifters, olympic lifters and lots of power-based lifters often carry huge amounts of muscle mass without training anywhere near to failure. I did the training-to-failure thing for years, but I really question now if it's necessary.

[sdistc]

I respectfully disagree with the need to train to failure. Powerlifters, olympic lifters and lots of power-based lifters often carry huge amounts of muscle mass without training anywhere near to failure. I did the training-to-failure thing for years, but I really question now if it's necessary.

 

While I understand your point regarding other methods of training, do you believe Olympic lifters aren't taxing at least their neural system to "failure". After all, how do you reach a maximum without failing?

Another question comes from the idea of cellular response - i.e. our bodies are so keen to compromise (using secondary muscles, or non-optimal biomechanics etc.) in order to avoid expending energy, they need an absolute threshold stimulus to become stronger/faster/bigger. How is this achieved if not by maximising the current abilities in the system?

[sdistc]

After further consideration, I'm beginning to wonder if we're not going to realise we're quibbling over the concept of "failure".

 

After all, as quality is more important than quantity, I emphasise to my patients the importance of training until the movement control becomes imperfect - which, while not strictly adherent to the idea of absolute muscular failure, is still an aspect of failure (only of the motor control component).

[Tannhauser]

While I understand your point regarding other methods of training, do you believe Olympic lifters aren't taxing at least their neural system to "failure". After all, how do you reach a maximum without failing?

Another question comes from the idea of cellular response - i.e. our bodies are so keen to compromise (using secondary muscles, or non-optimal biomechanics etc.) in order to avoid expending energy, they need an absolute threshold stimulus to become stronger/faster/bigger. How is this achieved if not by maximising the current abilities in the system?

 

After further consideration, I'm beginning to wonder if we're not going to realise we're quibbling over the concept of "failure".

 

After all, as quality is more important than quantity, I emphasise to my patients the importance of training until the movement control becomes imperfect - which, while not strictly adherent to the idea of absolute muscular failure, is still an aspect of failure (only of the motor control component).

 

Ah, that sounds like you're defining failure as 'a breakdown in form.' From your earlier post, I took it to mean concentric failure, by which I mean 'not being able to complete another rep.'

 

A lot of popular hypertrophy routines over the last few years seem to focus much more on progressive increases in workload or resistance. Routines like the 5-3-1 variants, tweaked for hypertrophy, or 5 X 5, or Starting Strength etc etc don't touch failure with a ten foot pole. They are based on forcing adaptation through a gradually increasing and relatively frequent loading.

 

With regard to Olympic lifters, I don't think they go anywhere near 'neural failure'. As I understand it, they train well within their capability, typically up to 95% of a 'training 1RM'. They can't afford to go near failure, because they might be doing the same movements six days a week. Powerlifters train with less frequency - typically - but also shy away from continually hitting their maxes in training and certainly avoid failure, neural or otherwise.

 

With regard to activating the threshold, well it seems to me that individual motor units are activated on and all-or-none basis, and that to activate all of them within one set, you would need to achieve muscular failure. But is it necessary or even desirable to activate every single unit? Or can hypertrophy be achieved without temporarily fatiguing every unit?

 

I don't know as much about this stuff as you do, and I'm perfectly willing to accept I'm wrong.

[sdistc]

Ah, that sounds like you're defining failure as 'a breakdown in form.' From your earlier post, I took it to mean concentric failure, by which I mean 'not being able to complete another rep.'

 

A lot of popular hypertrophy routines over the last few years seem to focus much more on progressive increases in workload or resistance. Routines like the 5-3-1 variants, tweaked for hypertrophy, or 5 X 5, or Starting Strength etc etc don't touch failure with a ten foot pole. They are based on forcing adaptation through a gradually increasing and relatively frequent loading.

 

With regard to Olympic lifters, I don't think they go anywhere near 'neural failure'. As I understand it, they train well within their capability, typically up to 95% of a 'training 1RM'. They can't afford to go near failure, because they might be doing the same movements six days a week. Powerlifters train with less frequency - typically - but also shy away from continually hitting their maxes in training and certainly avoid failure, neural or otherwise.

 

With regard to activating the threshold, well it seems to me that individual motor units are activated on and all-or-none basis, and that to activate all of them within one set, you would need to achieve muscular failure. But is it necessary or even desirable to activate every single unit? Or can hypertrophy be achieved without temporarily fatiguing every unit?

 

I don't know as much about this stuff as you do, and I'm perfectly willing to accept I'm wrong.

 

No, you were right in thinking I was defining failure as the inability to complete another rep - but I'm also trying to consider a few alternatives to simply "muscular" failure, such as neural fatigue etc.

 

In terms of the threshold, motor units are activated on an "as needed" basis - i.e. they only turn on if ABSOLUTELY forced to. This is why you will get rapid gains from an unfamiliar program, as your body adapts via neural components - either improving co-ordination of muscles, and therefore movement efficiency; or by increasing the amount that motor units fire, and therefore activating a larger proportion of the muscle unit.

 

The problems with investigating the effect of different training programs are many: the need for a statistically significant number of *trained* subjects willing to put their current training on hold for a theoretical unknown, the inherent secrecy of elite strength coaches, the difficulty of truly determining the cause of adaptation (neural, muscular, combination, other physiological) in vivo, accounting for individual differences in response and "out of gym" factors (nutrition, sleep, other training etc)... etc etc etc.

 

I'm enjoying this discussion. It's making me think Not sure if either of us are right, but it's definitely worth considering the balance of the data.

[mikeyb10supra]

My take on this is that you train to succeed not train to fail. By training to failure, all you are teaching and training your body to do is shut down and fail ie not complete another rep. I used to train in a similar way until I thought about the stress and effect this has on your CNS and that I dont want to fail at a set of heavy squats, I want to suceed with a good strong set without someone helping me. I know thats not really a technical explanation but thats my take. I am much more on the incremental increase in weight bandwagon and completing a good quality set of reps maybe dropping 1-2 reps short of failure and maximising time under tension, thats not to say that I never do a balls out brutal set to failure.....just not very often

[Septic]

Monday

3x5 squats

3x5 bench

1x5 deadlifts

 

Sorry if this is a silly question but does the above mean 3 sets of 5 reps squats etc? Surely it can't be just 5 reps of deadlifts unless you're lifting crazy weights?

[dude]

Sorry if this is a silly question but does the above mean 3 sets of 5 reps squats etc? Surely it can't be just 5 reps of deadlifts unless you're lifting crazy weights?

 

Deadlift really needs to be heavy dude, I would do a warm up set I would not even count and a set of say 3 heavy and a final set of 2 at around 250kg and warm down with some lighter sets,

[Septic]

Deadlift really needs to be heavy dude, I would do a warm up set I would not even count and a set of say 3 heavy and a final set of 2 at around 250kg and warm down with some lighter sets,

 

250kg:blink:

 

I'm not even going to start with how much I lift....

[dude]

250kg:blink:

 

I'm not even going to start with how much I lift....

 

I don't do deadlift anymore as the back ache for the next 2 days was not funny anymore !!!! I still keep my hand in by using the front of the race car !!!