cje001 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Simply question - do you agree? I`m torn. Simply: 1) Hate the banks and politicians ref expenses etc - they look after themselves and others have to pick up the pieces, the banks could pay the money back now (or at least some) but as far as i read they haven't yet. 2) I`m from a Private sector background and we got treated like garbage, hours, pay, bonuses cut, redundancies, false promises etc... we couldn `t strike as we weren't part of a huge union.. no one cared. 3) I run my own business now, we all are contributing the 'the recovery' i have no pension, interest rates are so low (savings make next to nothing), we are paying 20% VAT, Corporation tax etc is high, prices of all commodities is very high, fuel, tax, insurance etc... 4) I can understand their frustrations, promises keep being moved, having to contribute more/work longer... 5) In all honestly some public sector services i`ve dealt with have been appallingly badly run, the benefits dept, jobcenters, local council etc... they cant even send a letter without a hassle, so many forms to fill in etc... surely the processes should be looked into as well to save money? 6) Children being off, parents having to take time off so teachers can strike - is this the right way? Is this the only way? I dont know how far down the 'negotiating' route they are but unless they are at the end then its a no from me. Just be interested to see what the general consensus is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Surely their strike action will only increase the deficit, therefore impacting all of us more? How many millions will this strike action have cost the country??? I hear a lot of people blaming the gov. and the banking industry for our problems (to be fair the previous gov. and the banking sector are largely responsible) but you hear very little of the schools and local authorities wasting their money, just so their budgets would be increased the following year. The amount of money the public sector have wasted in this manner, and missed deadlines/budgets is utterly shocking. It's about time they took some responsibility. Pathetic, greedy morons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewOW Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 No, they should not be allowed to strike. If I don't get a pay rise, and I threaten to strike, I'm out, and so it should be for them too. There are plenty of people wanting work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra dan Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 i didnt get a pay rise for two years, and they stopped our final salary pension and increased our contribution. i am sick of paying for public sector pensions druggies benefits let them live in the real world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Joke, as said they have a choice, try the real world and most of them wouldn't survive. Companies i've worked for wouldn't put up with the amount of sick days these people have and also we've all had our pensions and benefits hit over the years in the private sector so they have been lucky to avoid it until now. As i said, don't like it then get out and try to hold down a job with a private company, I doubt many would actually do it or be up to it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
China Man Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I feel sorry for the teachers, the kids they have to deal with nowadays. It used to be kids want to go to school and want to learn and now parent and teacher have to force them to.... Should they strike .... no Should they be better paid...yes but only if there are results to back their performance e.g. kids motivated and willing to learn, having aspiration and focus to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 try the real world . let them live in the real world What makes working for one employer part of 'the real world'? What is this real world and why are certain jobs excluded from it? These are weighty existential matters. I think they need answering before this reasoned, objective and thoughtful debate can progress. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 For example, in the real world companies wouldn't accept the level of alleged sickness days that is rife in most council offices. Also had we all gone on strike when asked to be realistic about our companies struggle with not being able to sustain the pension scheme as it stood then that would have meant us losing many more jobs as a result of the strike action, something I doubt will happen with the teachers etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cje001 Posted June 30, 2011 Author Share Posted June 30, 2011 There is a huge divide between the private and public sector i feel. My experience of the private sector is one of: Very long hours Decent pay False promises Redundancies and cost cutting when the owners feel like it Bonus driven, then only to receive a small % when times are tough and more when the good times come Disciplined staff Low sick days/stress etc I think the public sector differs from segment to segment... Teachers - work hard, long holidays, pretty stressful jobs, underpaid.... Council workers - appear to be uninterested, lazy, loads of sick days, some overpaid..... Police - difficult job, facing real cut backs... Hospitals - very tough jobs, massively long hours, low pay for most... These are only my personal observations and not based on facts... The point is, there is a massive divide in terms of what is expected. Public expect at least an inflationary pay rise... Private - i didnt get a pay rise and i worked 60hour weeks, hit all targets etc... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 There is a huge divide between the private and public sector i feel. My experience of the private sector is one of: Very long hours Decent pay False promises Redundancies and cost cutting when the owners feel like it Bonus driven, then only to receive a small % when times are tough and more when the good times come Disciplined staff Low sick days/stress etc I think your point that the public sector isn;t one entity is a good one. The trouble is that most people don't have any experience of both sectors, so there's an awful lot of assumptions about the other side. I know people in the private sector who share many of the opinions about public sector workers seen on here. But I've seen the converse - a lot of public sector workers think they are the only ones with stressful jobs or who work long hours. Even when the two groups socialise they don't really get what the other group does. It's one of those cases of "before criticizing a man, walk a mile in his shoes." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supra dan Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 i think the main point is that those in the private sector have already been suffering and the public sector dont think any of this should affect them. why should everyone else be expected to pay for gold plated pensions? they keep saying they shouldnt have to pay more so where does the money come from? us of course Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 OK, it's simple, 'if' they get what they want then it costs money, that either comes in more taxes or further cuts to services. Me and the rest of the private sector will have to pay for this in some way, what makes the public sector think they shouldn't make the sacrifices that the rest of us have made over many years? Is that actually fair, the ones that have already been penalised and had to accept it then get hammered again just to save a few from going through the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 I've worked in the public sector in social housing since 1985, where do I get one of those "gold plated pensions"? My last pension forecast says I will get £1500 pa after 20 years contributions - gold plated my arse! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 What did you do, put a fiver a month in it? Guess you won't bother striking then as any loss by new rules won't make much difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 What did you do, put a fiver a month in it? Guess you won't bother striking then as any loss by new rules won't make much difference? I'm in Unison, we weren't asked to go on strike. I have no choice but be in the pension scheme I'm in, frankly I'd rather that I didn't have to be in it. Frankly, as I see it, those who have made no plans for their old age are comfortably accommodated by the state. They pay no income tax and they pay no council tax. So who's paying for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 They pay no income tax and they pay no council tax. So who's paying for them? Us, and that's wrong too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 All the talk that the private sector pensions shouldn't have been dropped either, if companies had kept them to a reasonable level then those companies wouldn't be around anymore...fact ! The public sector just thinks they can dip further into taxes to fund theirs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 i think the main point is that those in the private sector have already been suffering and the public sector dont think any of this should affect them. why should everyone else be expected to pay for gold plated pensions? they keep saying they shouldnt have to pay more so where does the money come from? us of course Actually, the Hutton Report into pension reform dismisses straight away the idea of 'gold plated pensions'. The average public service pension = £7,800 a year. According to Hutton, that's a ‘ modest level of retirement income.' Secondly, the assumption that the current level of pensions can't be afforded by the country is highly debatable. The independent reviews have largely rejected the 'unaffordable' claim. The public purse contributions to the fund are actually expected to fall. This is an interesting listen - Evan Davis talking to Francis Maude -around 8-9 minutes in: here If I understand it correctly, the public contributions to pensions seem to have peaked already. I think the fact that the ATL are striking speaks volumes. They are the least toothless, least militant of the teaching unions. They haven't taken any industrial action since 1979, yet they are out on this one. Some of the proposed cuts are massive. For people who chose public service careers on the basis of pensions, have been paying into the pot for 20 years plus (when they might have got higher wages in the private sector), it doesn't feel like a reasonable adjustment. Especially given the points raised above. T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannhauser Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 All the talk that the private sector pensions shouldn't have been dropped either, if companies had kept them to a reasonable level then those companies wouldn't be around anymore...fact ! The public sector just thinks they can dip further into taxes to fund theirs? Presumably companies started a scramble for the bottom. Once one company cuts pension schemes to make themselves more competitive, the others follow suit. Perhaps if all private sector workers had withdrawn their labour, nobody would have been able to do it, so they're back on a level playing field. Not that I'm seriously suggesting that the private sector could do that. You may well be right that companies would have gone to the wall without making those cuts - the recession has been deep this time. But don't forget also that competitveness is always the excuse to erode the benefits and pay that workers receive. I bet that those pension cuts didn't fall equitably across the staff. As for taking more out of taxes, see earlier post based on the government's own report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Raven Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 BUMP! Teachers are set to walk out next weel dispite only a 25% voting to do so. Yet we get fined if we take our kids out of school to go on hoilday..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Westcoaster Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 why should everyone else be expected to pay for gold plated pensions? My how I'll live it up on my 'gold plated pension', when I retire at 67, I have the equivalent of £15,500 p.a. after 40+ years of contributions working in the social housing sector according to my latest pension forecast. The previous figure of £1500 p.a. was the performance of my AVCs. (Pensions are complicated!) My pension is paid by me, my employer and good performance from my pension fund, which is run in the public sector, not for profit. My pay has reduced in real terms by almost 10% since the financial crisis occured in 2008, I'm not due to get a pay rise this year and inflation is at 5%, how many of the fecking bankers are in that situation? :x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
probrox Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I wonder how many of those against the striking action would take the same view if they worked in the public sector? I don't work in the public sector myself, just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Blame the unions! London underground are the worst, they strike every year over pay even though they get a raise dispute the recession! I can understand a strike when people are being ripped off. When they all in a difficult position where they have no choice but to. The London Underground is demanding 3x pay to work on boxing day & a day in lui as well, so basically 4x a days salary! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwilkinson Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 & a day in lui as well, so basically 4x a days salary! I bet Lui ain't happy about having all those people inside "him"!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozz Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I currently work for one of the largest (per capita) companies in the world (and one that know one will have heard of ), and I spent a few years working for local government. My experience of local government was much lower pay, but much lower stress, much easier to just sit in a job and do the minimum, less competition, lots of people moaning, very low morale, high sick rate. Private sector...much more competition and emphasis on performance, usually better rewards if you put the effort in but much more stress. I found that public sector employees complained about private sector pay but simply many would not survive in the culture and don't realise the protection they have. You need to attract and retain people to public sector so I can appreciate a good wage is required but if you want more opportunity, chance for reward, bonuses then you have to move to private and be prepared to work hard. Should they strike, IMO, no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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