bl4stin Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 (edited) hi again - before i start i would like to ask if you could answer my questions if you know the answer to my questions - i dont want what happend last time with people just ruining the thread with the sarcasm and stupid jibes and remarks which had my last thread forcibly locked - thanks . i would like to ask as i know the stock filter is what you guys say is the best option , but id like to run this past you now as ive recently seen on a supra the front drivers side headlight had a big hole in it , it looked like a after market headlight with this hole speacially desighned for air to be rushed into the airfilter area , was wondering if an induction kit would be better if you had this type of headlight or would the stock induction still be the better option ? also do you lose power if you have an induction kit or just not gain anythin ?? as i would sure love to have the induction roar as it sounds amazing , however if its going to be damaging to the engine i wont bother . also is there such thing as to much air being put through the filter is bad for the engine ? Edited June 15, 2011 by bl4stin (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 This has been covered hundreds of times already, there is a search button The stock induction setup is more than enough for any turbo setup using the stock manifold & turbo setup. The ONLY reason people open up the headlight is due to using single turbo setups where massive air intake and cold air feed is required. It's only for non-road going cars though. So called "induction kits" do reduce power in road use situations, they sound terrible too And for your final question the answer is No. An engine takes in only what it needs. What is important is that that air is as cool as possible, hence stock induction being preferred since it draws cold air from outside the engine bay rather than hot air from inside it (aka induction kits). Hotter intaker temps = less power, cooler intake temps = more power Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 The stock induction setup is more than enough for any turbo setup using the stock manifold & turbo setup. The ONLY reason people open up the headlight is due to using single turbo setups where massive air intake and cold air feed is required. It's only for non-road going cars though. So called "induction kits" do reduce power in road use situations, they sound terrible too And for your final question the answer is No. An engine takes in only what it needs. What is important is that that air is as cool as possible, hence stock induction being preferred since it draws cold air from outside the engine bay rather than hot air from inside it (aka induction kits). Hotter intaker temps = less power, cooler intake temps = more power The stock airbox is not restrictive - when running stock turbos and probably not for a moderately size single turbo either. The panel filter used in the stock airbox has a bigger filtration area compared to most aftermarket induction kit cone filters. The stock airbox is sealed from the engine bay and has 2 cool air feeds, this forces the engine to draw in cool air from outside of the engine bay. With an induction kit fitted the engine draws in hot air from the engine bay. Cooler air = denser air = more oxygen molecules = bigger bang = more power. The headlights you mention are usually stock headlights that have had a hole cut in the lens and a pipe fabricated through the headlight to the airfilter, as Homer says this is only for use on the drag strip or track. Induction kit companies usually claim their product will give a certain hp gain and often show a dyno graph to prove this. On a dyno they may well give a slight increase in power. BUT when a car is on a dyno the bonnet is open and there is usually a large fan blowing air across the front of the car which dissipates the heat from the engine bay. On the road the bonnet is obviously closed and the engine/turbos heat the air under the bonnet - if you open the bonnet after a good run out and stick your head in there you'll see just how hot it gets - with an induction kit the engine draws in this heated air which in comparison to the stock airbox reduces power and response from the engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl4stin Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 The stock airbox is not restrictive - when running stock turbos and probably not for a moderately size single turbo either. The panel filter used in the stock airbox has a bigger filtration area compared to most aftermarket induction kit cone filters. The stock airbox is sealed from the engine bay and has 2 cool air feeds, this forces the engine to draw in cool air from outside of the engine bay. With an induction kit fitted the engine draws in hot air from the engine bay. Cooler air = denser air = more oxygen molecules = bigger bang = more power. The headlights you mention are usually stock headlights that have had a hole cut in the lens and a pipe fabricated through the headlight to the airfilter, as Homer says this is only for use on the drag strip or track. Induction kit companies usually claim their product will give a certain hp gain and often show a dyno graph to prove this. On a dyno they may well give a slight increase in power. BUT when a car is on a dyno the bonnet is open and there is usually a large fan blowing air across the front of the car which dissipates the heat from the engine bay. On the road the bonnet is obviously closed and the engine/turbos heat the air under the bonnet - if you open the bonnet after a good run out and stick your head in there you'll see just how hot it gets - with an induction kit the engine draws in this heated air which in comparison to the stock airbox reduces power and response from the engine. 2 excellent replies and a big thankyou for anwering in much detail . but if i may just add to this please , in the mr2 i recently sold , i had left in stock air filter setup for this reason , the engine bay being too hot and an induction kit would have induced this hot air , just i thought it might have been diffrent if you had a special headlight and an induction kit with an cold air feed to the headlight thats all , so anyway to my next couple of quezzies , 1. would it be benefitial to run a TRD panel airfilter as the stock setup is in place just with an TRD panel filter ?? 2. i was running my MR2's blow off valve atmospheric so every time i lifted off the gas i had a nice sounding whooooosh , is this possible to do with the TT setup without it harming anything , as with my old mr2 it never did anything just the 93 model it made the car run rich , will i have this problem if i make the blowoff valves atmospheric ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 All the above. Theres a massive misconception that a cone filter gives you instant mega powerz but thats not the case. The stock airbox has ducted cold air feeds and a high quality, good flowing filter, its also well insulated and thats all you need. If you want induction roar like a 1.2 Saxo then by all means crack on with the cone filter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 but if i may just add to this please , in the mr2 i recently sold , i had left in stock air filter setup for this reason , the engine bay being too hot and an induction kit would have induced this hot air , just i thought it might have been diffrent if you had a special headlight and an induction kit with an cold air feed to the headlight thats all , so anyway to my next couple of quezzies , 1. would it be benefitial to run a TRD panel airfilter as the stock setup is in place just with an TRD panel filter ?? 2. i was running my MR2's blow off valve atmospheric so every time i lifted off the gas i had a nice sounding whooooosh , is this possible to do with the TT setup without it harming anything , as with my old mr2 it never did anything just the 93 model it made the car run rich , will i have this problem if i make the blowoff valves atmospheric ?? 1. The freer flowing TRD filter may give a very slight increase, but I doubt you would notice any difference. I use to run a TRD panel filter in my own car when it had the stock turbos, they are a good quality paper filter (similar to the stock filter element), it certainly won't lose you any power, but don't expect any huge gains. 2. The J-spec 2JZ-GTE uses a MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor which is not effected by a vent to atmosphere blow off valve. The UK 2JZ-GTE Supra uses a MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor, fitting a vent to atmosphere BOV on a UK spec will effect the MAF signal which will effect the fueling, on a UK spec it is best to either run the stock recirculating BOV or if you use an aftermarket BOV eg. HKS SSQV you can buy a separate recirculating kit that plumbs the BOV back into the intake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl4stin Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 1. The freer flowing TRD filter may give a very slight increase, but I doubt you would notice any difference. I use to run a TRD panel filter in my own car when it had the stock turbos, they are a good quality paper filter (similar to the stock filter element), it certainly won't lose you any power, but don't expect any huge gains. 2. The J-spec 2JZ-GTE uses a MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) sensor which is not effected by a vent to atmosphere blow off valve. The UK 2JZ-GTE Supra uses a MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor, fitting a vent to atmosphere BOV on a UK spec will effect the MAF signal which will effect the fueling, on a UK spec it is best to either run the stock recirculating BOV or if you use an aftermarket BOV eg. HKS SSQV you can buy a separate recirculating kit that plumbs the BOV back into the intake. Thanks mate , yeah i,ll be getting the j-spec and i,ll probably make them run atmospheric to get the nice noise . can you hear the nice whooooosh when you make them run atmospheric on the j-spec ? , you could hear it quite loud in the mr2 lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelboyne Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 hi again - before i start i would like to ask if you could answer my questions if you know the answer to my questions - i dont want what happend last time with people just ruining the thread with the sarcasm and stupid jibes and remarks which had my last thread forcibly locked - thanks . i would like to ask as i know the stock filter is what you guys say is the best option , but id like to run this past you now as ive recently seen on a supra the front drivers side headlight had a big hole in it , it looked like a after market headlight with this hole speacially desighned for air to be rushed into the airfilter area , was wondering if an induction kit would be better if you had this type of headlight or would the stock induction still be the better option ? also do you lose power if you have an induction kit or just not gain anythin ?? as i would sure love to have the induction roar as it sounds amazing , however if its going to be damaging to the engine i wont bother . also is there such thing as to much air being put through the filter is bad for the engine ? when i went bpu tdi done a hp test with hks mushroom cone induction kit, they said the car made 12hp more, but i couldn live with the stupid noise so i asked them to put the standard box back on, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl4stin Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 when i went bpu tdi done a hp test with hks mushroom cone induction kit, they said the car made 12hp more, but i couldn live with the stupid noise so i asked them to put the standard box back on, what kind of stupid noise is it ? what is it similar to ? i take it its not like a induction roar .. on this link you can see the supra racing and when he changes gear a nice noise occurs just wait for the cockpit view of the supra and you will hear it , does anyone know what this is or what blowoff valve he is using ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathWraith Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I have been looking for detailed answers to this question and this thread has helped me alot also. But what is this induction noise sound like? Anyone got a video of one on an NA? I say NA probably cos I will imagine I won't be able to tell between turbo whoosh and induction whoosh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 If you do search for 'SSQV video' or 'BOV video' you should find loads of threads/videos on the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan294 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I run a K&N cone filter on my BPU Jap Spec, it makes the first Turbo sound a touch louder, i also run a Blitz Nur Spec R exhaust, that kind of takes the emphasis on noise away from the air filter...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 I have been looking for detailed answers to this question and this thread has helped me alot also. But what is this induction noise sound like? Anyone got a video of one on an NA? I say NA probably cos I will imagine I won't be able to tell between turbo whoosh and induction whoosh. Blow off valve on an NA? For turbos only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Whats the nice noise? Is it a dump valve? Again, use the search feature, bov's have been covered a million and 1 times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathWraith Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 If you do search for 'SSQV video' or 'BOV video' you should find loads of threads on the subject. Cheers bro Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelboyne Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 what kind of stupid noise is it ? what is it similar to ? i take it its not like a induction roar .. on this link you can see the supra racing and when he changes gear a nice noise occurs just wait for the cockpit view of the supra and you will hear it , does anyone know what this is or what blowoff valve he is using ??? i cant see any link mate but the noise was most likely iduction roar that i couldn live with,however sam in tdi said 12hp gain, so if you can live with the noise there was a gain in hp even though experts here on the site say no hp gain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NathWraith Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Blow off valve on an NA? For turbos only. No not a Blow off valve, I know that is part of a turbo set up. I mean the cone airfilter induction. Apprantly it gives a different sound to stock? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nic Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 when i went bpu tdi done a hp test with hks mushroom cone induction kit, they said the car made 12hp more, but i couldn live with the stupid noise so i asked them to put the standard box back on, Maybe 12hp more on a dyno, not on the road, see my earlier reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 But what is this induction noise sound like? Search Youtube for touring car video's British touring cars or DTM to hear induction roar on an n/a car. Failing that head to your local chav hangout tonight lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Failing that head to your local chav hangout tonight lol That would be a trip to halfords then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl4stin Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1J-eiCsWR4 here is the link sorry i forgot to post it in my last post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bl4stin Posted June 16, 2011 Author Share Posted June 16, 2011 Cheers bro http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1J-eiCsWR4 here is the link sorry i forgot to post in my last post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelboyne Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 [=Nic;3143716]Maybe 12hp more on a dyno, not on the road, see my earlier reply. well i did see the graph so no maybe about it defo 12 hp, as for the road i dont kmow it did feel like a sharper more responsive acceleration, but the noise of the system just wanted it back to the normal induction system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 Thats a bov, probably an HKS SSQV (geeeeeeek!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan294 Posted June 16, 2011 Share Posted June 16, 2011 (edited) [=Nic;3143716]Maybe 12hp more on a dyno, not on the road, see my earlier reply. well i did see the graph so no maybe about it defo 12 hp, as for the road i dont kmow it did feel like a sharper more responsive acceleration, but the noise of the system just wanted it back to the normal induction system. Think as Nic said, they'll have had the bonnet open. I've dyno'd loads of Civic Type R's with K&N typhoon induction systems fitted. They will show an extra 12-14BHP with the bonnet open as there is no heat soak. Same on any car i'd assume.... Edited June 16, 2011 by dan294 Spelling!! (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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