mellonman Posted June 3, 2011 Share Posted June 3, 2011 (edited) i have had this happen since i had the aem fic 8 fitted when off boost and cruising or when off throttle completly the mixture goes mad off throttle it goes lean 18-1 (normal when rolling) but the jumps rich 10-1 then back to 18-1 and will carry on doing this even under braking it does it and i can feel the car pull forward when richin out? what would cause this? i have 650 injectors i do live with it now as dont use the car much but really want it sorted anyone know anything about this ? Edited June 3, 2011 by mellonman (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakky Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Has the O2 sensor got a "modifier" wire to it. Basically has it been interfered with. Modifier is AEM terminology, and you should see this back at the FIC loom to the ECU pinouts. Has it been tapped into? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted June 4, 2011 Author Share Posted June 4, 2011 im guessing it was all wired correctly but you never know with some garages! the wide band is instaled correctly into the aem but unsure if it had be set in the soft ware Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakky Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Stock ECU still needs to see O2 sensor, modified or unmodified. Don't trust garage wiring. Check under carpet for O2 pin on FIC and see if it's got anything wired in. Is AEM wideband wired for logging only or did you get them to build a map? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 the o2 pin oxygen bank 2 sensor has nothing connected to the fic and the o2 pin bank 1 sensor has the wide band wired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 what would the condition be doing this too little fuel at throttle position? strange why it would pulse like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awisto Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 What do the people that mapped it say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 having trouble getting hold of them. but now i have all the soft ware and have be doing my research and found that i may need to fit a 2k ohm resistor in the crank and cam signals due to toyota using a magnetic sensor and it picks up interferance. so route 1 fit resistors 1 at a time to see if that has affect if not better will go up the road and see what the fic is doing at that state when it does it and seee if i can compensate on the map i have copied the map so if it goes tits up then i can just up load it again, but not too bothered as its all off load stuff and and will only be doing fuel map and keeping a eye on the afr guage this is very close to being right so is just off slightly. will keep this updated as this is a common fault with the fic, not the best bit of kit very basic but software wise wow what a nightmare reflash this use these drivers then use these drivers then reflash back to that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Was toying with using FIC on my Skyline, because its supposed to deal with CAN bus on later cars, i do believe it has the ability to tweak the std lambda feedback to the ECU,(have you also looked at this?) but another drawback i found that it cant directly advance the ignition timing, so you have to start buggering around with MAP or MFA if you want to advance the timing, so i thought sod that, i would be better off with an EMU, but after a bit of research, i decided that some direct ECU re flashing software is the sensible option, but obviously mine is not a Supra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted June 9, 2011 Author Share Posted June 9, 2011 yeah i see that you could do a hole map from the lambda and have a even better one from the wideband but have to adjust the fuel map for the afr changes for the long term fuel trim if you just do it on the afr the stock ecu will work them out over time, but i think i will try and keep it simple at the mo. i didnt think you could advance the timing in anyway? i am no mapper the car runs great wot but its just off throttle in closed loop its abit poo so i think its where stock and fic conflict i believe. well we will see how it goes if i post in the wanted section for a engine it went terribly wrong. i do wish i never bothered getting the bigger injectors for some hybrids that probably didnt need it should of found out more info and done flat out tests with stock injectors and clamped my boost at what i could get away with! never mind live and learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Just had a re read, are you sure that the FIC has been configured for the larger injectors correctly, as it sounds like the mad rich to lean behavior is just the result of the std ECU flicking the injector duty back and forth, in it usual effort to keep the idle and closed loop AFRs to around stoic, but as the injectors are larger its causing a much larger AFR swing than usual. If not as i said check the std lambda fudging function. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awisto Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Are you still running the stock O2 sensor along with a wideband? Agree with Ricky, sounds as though they're fighting each other. I recently fitted one on an Aristo, running fine, but we just used the AEM wideband and done away with the stock O2 sensor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakky Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 Can you post your .cal file, and I'll take a look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted June 10, 2011 Author Share Posted June 10, 2011 (edited) I very much doubt the injectors are set correctly as every thing else done by the garrage went wrong why not this how would i tell? sweet thanks for the responces guys will post up cal file tonight when im with my lap top, i am running stock o2 and a wide band in the first decat,i used to have the wide band in place of the o2 but tuner said was best to put stock back in for when you lift off throttle with out it it dumps fuel in as in rich state from stock ecu Up date: fitted 2.2ohm resistors to crank and cam signal which helped a slight miss at 4000 rpm i adjusted the injector responce time put that back to the standard aem setting of 486us which corrected a hot starting issue. but with the bouncing afr the fic does not show me that its doing anything when its doing it? but was very hard to do all on my own on the road but have my brother round tonight for karting so he can drive while i watch and tweak. Edited June 10, 2011 by mellonman (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted June 10, 2011 Author Share Posted June 10, 2011 (edited) some thing i did notice but unsure if it could cause a problem that the ecu voltage was not steady it seemed to be 13.4v mostly and then drop for a split second some times to 11v then 15v that cant be normal? i will clean up my earth pionts me thinks will be a good start Edited June 10, 2011 by mellonman (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 First off YES! a stable ECU voltage is curtail, i would investigate that first, the ECU earth could have been disturbed when the FIC was fitted, and judging by your fitting garage well, i would be double checking all their wiring. From what i remember the FIC has an adjustable injector lag/offset, you need to check the factory recommended lag setting for that particular injector, they can be tweaked slightly, but i wouldn't advise much, I cant remember how the FIC deals with larger injectors, has it got a global setting or do you compensate with the duty-cycle or duration map? The other point is with the Lambda tweak function, again cant remember 100% but i think it can ad or subtract to both a std lambda or the UGEO simulated narowband outputs to the ECU, which ever you use, it shouldn't make a difference if the simulated output is calibrated correctly, thats another thing to look at. It also could be a possibility that the simulated output hasn't been adjusted and is outputting a wideband output, and if fed to the std ECU will cause big problems. Personally i would double check everything, after what you said about the garage, in my experience most garage monkeys wouldn't have a clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted June 11, 2011 Author Share Posted June 11, 2011 okay cleaned up the earths and got a more stable ecu voltage sitting more around 14v with small decimal changes problem still there in looking at the fuel map the no load was set to -50 when changing that did make the bounceing better. how do i attach cal file it says invalid file Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakky Posted June 11, 2011 Share Posted June 11, 2011 Zip the cal file mate. Right-click and "Send to" -> "Compressed (zipped) Folder" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted June 12, 2011 Author Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) hopefully this works but i think i might of seen a issue with the injector sizing as the old injectors was 440 and i have put in 650 but they have put it in the map as 1000 old and 1000 new? please see attached if you need the password to open its melonfic im starting to get abit worried that im gonna have to ditch the hole map and i cant even map it as dont have any det monitering equipment. thanks for all you help guys i think im gonna need it what a bodge of a install do you think i could get any money back from them? anyway have now done some playing to see what the differeance would be and can work out that the -50 should be -32 to keep the injectors in line with the stock setting. so i think i have cracked it being that the -50 is way to lean and the stock ecu is kicking in and making the car really rich to compensate thuse bouncing thats my thoughts anyway, i get my coil pack clips on tuesday so will give the car a good going over and see if that sorts itgary2.zip Edited June 12, 2011 by mellonman found out more infomation (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakky Posted June 12, 2011 Share Posted June 12, 2011 (edited) The injector resize function always defaults to 1000 to 1000, and so it's not possible to see how they resized in the past for those injectors. What is the lag time on those injectors? as that is set to default, and not been changed. What revs does the lean/rich condition occur? between 1200-2400? It does look like it's lean trimming excessively for deceleration under 3psi absolute because this fuel trim map set to -50%, try 0% or maybe -30% as you say to enrichen this. Not sure what the map will do below 3psi as your table stops there. Run a log when this condition occurs and post the log so I can "replay". Edited June 12, 2011 by Yakky (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted June 13, 2011 Author Share Posted June 13, 2011 I think the 3 psi is not a factor as it accounts for the absoute air preasure so even with engine off i get that reading pritty much would depend on where the car was in relation to sea level. yeah your right it does seem to be in that rev range it does it! cant move that car at the mo as i damaged the coil pack conectors checking them. but as soon as i will let you know what i find and post up the log. the injector responce time was set to 405 but i was having hot start issues and on the aem furum and there was lots of threads stating uping the injector responce time helped with poor starting this did help but i under stand now that the bouncing proble with -50 will also give me a lean cranking condition so this might be 2 birds with one stone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 enriched the settings to a more suitable setting 0f -30 was a little better but still does it down hill or rolling, tryed loads of things i will now drop down the psi down to see what is happening lower down if it gets there on vacuum, wish i had more time out to do it as laptop battery is so rubish couldnt even get to do a log after all my attemps i will log first this time and try and over come after. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT Paul Posted June 15, 2011 Share Posted June 15, 2011 contact ryan.g hes done mine well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellonman Posted June 15, 2011 Author Share Posted June 15, 2011 contact ryan.g hes done mine well yes but im having trouble contacting him. anyway got it alot better tonight the fuel trim was quite away off so ecu was over compensating making the afr bounce it still does it slightly i also dropped the psi down to the 0 as surgested and did help please see attached log of fault. this was before my adjustment doing down a slight hillFIC86_15_2011 19_26_38.zip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TT Paul Posted June 17, 2011 Share Posted June 17, 2011 yes but im having trouble contacting him. anyway got it alot better tonight the fuel trim was quite away off so ecu was over compensating making the afr bounce it still does it slightly i also dropped the psi down to the 0 as surgested and did help please see attached log of fault. this was before my adjustment doing down a slight hill ahh i think hes in madrid working maybe?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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