Charlotte Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Why don't they create war in Ireland over the IRA? Our miltary had troops in Northern Ireland for a looooooong time. Perhaps you're a little young to recall all the 'wars' over there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cje001 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 wtf? I didnt understand it either... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cje001 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Mawby - you seem like an intelligent chap - keen to hear you view on the 911 attacks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abz Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Hand on your heart - you honestly believe the USA government would not only know about the Al Quada attack but help by blowing up the towers for no other reason other then to invade Iraq/Afgh/etc.... The USA could have found an easier reason than that! Iran - nuclear weapons, lets use the old 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' line and invade with that reason... I just cant see it. Well the CIA know Al Qaeda well as they pretty much formed them in the soviet years (This is all documented history). Possible, but how would they get the backing of all the people in the states? In the UK we are not as easily fed. Even though the government went against the public wishes to go to war, they did so on the basis that Iraq had WMD which could be deployed in 45 minutes. When we found out that was not the case, did anything happen? Was anyone charged with thousands of civillians who died because we was convinced they had WMD? Large area's bombed and people died because they had 'intelligence' and the best method was to just blow the whole area up. End of the day, nothing can be proved, though the fact the government does as it pleases should be concering for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robzki Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 They are both related, so either both are stupid or neither. All religions believe they are the religion and want to dominate, all governments want to be the most powerful and dominate the world, all gangs want to be the most feared and dominate their areas, all football teams want to be the 'best' and dominate the leader boards, all little baby lambs want to get the most food from it's mother so it can be stronger and dominate the other lambs..... have I made my point? Unless the whole world enters a state of euphoria, this will never end. It's human nature... well actually just nature. Damn this religion thing makes me so mad, especially the last statement. A ewe with one quarter(one udder) can feed both lambs well, but the lambs choose which one they want. unlucky for the one that picks the bad udder. He won't argue or fight or even run around telling the other lambs that they are all wrong because it was foretold that there would be a second coming (of the milk) He will just accept his lot in life, follow his mother around until he is too weak then curl up and die. I have just been and fed the 'unlucky' lamb with a bottle to keep him going...........hold on......the second coming.......damn the lamb was right all along. I think you're right with the rest of it though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attero Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 There are videos (you can find them online) of Bin Laden with friends and family discussing the attack on September 11th and how it was planned along with the reaction of Al-Qaeda as many of them didn't know it happened at the time or was even being planned. It was kept under wraps by Bin Laden but the video definitely proves that he was the man behind it. The people who crashed the planes didn't even know what they were put in their positions for. They were told minutes before they got on the plane and that's when the whole thing was put in place. I'm sorry, but if you look hard enough online, you can find the reasons and evidence for everything that is discussed in this thread and I can tell you now, all these conspiracies are utter trash. I'm sure the government are hiding things, but they are not hiding anything as serious as destroying their own nations lives. If you believe in these conspiracies, you are pretty much as bad as the people who are following the May 21st Judgement day theory. Clap clap to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mawby Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 He will just accept his lot in life, follow his mother around until he is too weak then curl up and die. I have just been and fed the 'unlucky' lamb with a bottle to keep him going....I picked the lamb example because I've spent quite a lot of time watching their behaviour over the last few months whilst my wife feeds the orphans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robzki Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I picked the lamb example because I've spent quite a lot of time watching their behaviour over the last few months whilst my wife feeds the orphans... Yeah have a few of them here Zwartbles crosses, look identical to ours, what breed? Back on topic, If I don't know enough 'facts' about something I just sit back, watch and learn. Unfortunately with religious threads there seem very few 'facts' going round so I just sit back, watch and laugh each to their own I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mawby Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Mawby - you seem like an intelligent chap - keen to hear you view on the 911 attacks...Unfortunately I don't have the time to research the conspiracy theories, and without doing so I don't feel suitably informed to decide if they are as good as fact, possible, or damn right nonsense. Thanks for the compliment though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havard Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Unfortunately I don't have the time to research the conspiracy theories, and without doing so I don't feel suitably informed to decide if they are as good as fact, possible, or damn right nonsense. Thanks for the compliment though. LOL..!! This thread is like Groundhog day. I must at this point do a Dragons Den and be "out"..!! I will come back later and see if there is any more stuff for me to take the pi$$ out of. H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Well I'm sure the government contribute alot ermmmm nah I think you'll find Jazz the Government have just increased the oversead aid programme by 34% to £11.5 billion, Id say thats a hefty chunk of cash helping the world. I honestly dont know why threads like these dont just get deleted when they start, all similar threads featuring the 'R' word always end the same way, the debate rapidly hurtles downhill, someone says something out of turn, it gets locked. IMO of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Septic Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 No offence intended to you Jazz but it is really painful having you being a proponent for the belief that there is a God. i'm sure we'll all find out when we die Well surely if you're an atheist you cannot agree with that because....well, you're dead! So I question the relevance of having a content life without the so-called inhibitions of religion. Even Dawkins falls into this trap, talking about the 'beauty' of the world as if it some objective standard and then cites memes and genes as a reason for our morality. Ultimately, I do not think any atheist can deny this, it boils down to this if you do not believe in God: we're just matter, all these emotions and feels such as love, compassion, hatred etc are mere byproducts of electrical impulses in our brain and other biological elements and that is all. NOTHING MORE and NOTHING LESS. So I find it quite amusing that the OP is so dismissive of religion (and I assume of God as well), attributing it to most of the 'evils' in the world, yet, without God, the world evil in its tradition sense would not even exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Mate i`m not really privy to the information and i agree (as already stated) that the 'information' about the attacks is somewhat distrubing - Knowledge of it - Building nearby blown up hours after (command centre) - CCTV from petrol station near Pentagon swipped by FBI - Hole in Pentagon was too small for plane, no damage to grass - Melting point of steel vs burning temp of jet fuel - way the building fell etc I know this but you arent answering my point.... why would they kill 3000+ people.... you have just turned it round to me and asked the same!!! My answer = I have no idea why, if they did know about it and it was an inside job they bloody hell i`ll be giving up on humanity right now! So - in your view Jazz1 why would they do this??? you trust the government too much - what you fail to realise is government consists of big business and guess what is big business for america - EXPORT OF WEAPONS... their military industrial complex needs conflict and war to survive... if you find it difficult to understand how killing 3000 people and then using that as a motive to take over other countries (and slaughter the civilians there) you need to seriously wake up and realise reality is totally different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 How can such a mentalist have amased £85k to waste, that's what confuses me the most from the BBC article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 It's not a debate, unless you start bringing some facts to the table. OBL publicly praised the attacks. He also spread messages of hate about the west. Wether or not he was directly behind the attacks is irrelevant, he was still a cause. The Jewish site you've chosen only represents a minority of Jews, hardly what I'd call neutral. And the points made about the west, odd how all of those can all be applied directly to Shiria law too. Our country may not be perfect, but it's a damned site better than much of the world. If you think we have problems, look at China, Pakistan, middle east, South America etc. i don't think china is any worse/better than the US/europe/UK... as for the middle east and pakistan - maybe OUR involvement there has created the shithole it's now become? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cje001 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 i don't think china is any worse/better than the US/europe/UK... as for the middle east and pakistan - maybe OUR involvement there has created the shithole it's now become? So Iraq was better before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Ultimately, I do not think any atheist can deny this, it boils down to this if you do not believe in God: we're just matter, all these emotions and feels such as love, compassion, hatred etc are mere byproducts of electrical impulses in our brain and other biological elements and that is all. NOTHING MORE and NOTHING LESS. Why do you have to believe in God to believe in humanity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 pakistan - maybe OUR involvement there has created the shithole it's now become? Genuine question - what is our involvement in Pakistan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cje001 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 No offence intended to you Jazz but it is really painful having you being a proponent for the belief that there is a God. Well surely if you're an atheist you cannot agree with that because....well, you're dead! So I question the relevance of having a content life without the so-called inhibitions of religion. Even Dawkins falls into this trap, talking about the 'beauty' of the world as if it some objective standard and then cites memes and genes as a reason for our morality. Ultimately, I do not think any atheist can deny this, it boils down to this if you do not believe in God: we're just matter, all these emotions and feels such as love, compassion, hatred etc are mere byproducts of electrical impulses in our brain and other biological elements and that is all. NOTHING MORE and NOTHING LESS. So I find it quite amusing that the OP is so dismissive of religion (and I assume of God as well), attributing it to most of the 'evils' in the world, yet, without God, the world evil in its tradition sense would not even exist. I`m dismissive of religion because i simply dont believe, i just cant see it - science disproves so much of religion. Little naive to argue that just because the world 'evil' comes from God that its ammusing to see one state that large scale evil acts quite often have a religious beginning or belief behind them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cje001 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 Genuine question - what is our involvement in Pakistan? Im not answering for him but my view was we dont have any at present and they are more of an Ali than many Muslim nations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 So Iraq was better before? i think you'll have to ask an iraqi that... would they rather be out in the streets knowing some nutjob could come and blow them up to smithereens? would they rather be exposed to high levels of depleted uranium (which has lead to a 600% jump in birth defects)? would they rather have their nations wealth stolen by a occupying power? would they rather have their brethren stripped naked and paraded around/photos taken and posted on the internet..... or would they rather have the alternative which was there before (..... WHICH AGAIN was put in place by the US/UK!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Genuine question - what is our involvement in Pakistan? 1) http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/nov/24/british-torture-human-rights-pakistan 2) NATO (which the UK is big part of) uses pakistan as a transit route to supply its troops with weapons/fuel/food into afghanistan 3) NATO/US air strikes in pakistan... killing innocent civilians. the above are just a small number of things.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 Why do you have to believe in God to believe in humanity? Ironically, it's the people that don't believe in God or an afterlife, but do right in their lives and look after others that are the truely good people in the world. As they don't do it for reward, they understand that they won't get a big thank you and a seat next to the big man after death. They do it because they are in-builit with empathy and a moral compass that doesn't need reason or a selfish push to be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cje001 Posted May 23, 2011 Author Share Posted May 23, 2011 i think you'll have to ask an iraqi that... would they rather be out in the streets knowing some nutjob could come and blow them up to smithereens? would they rather be exposed to high levels of depleted uranium (which has lead to a 600% jump in birth defects)? would they rather have their nations wealth stolen by a occupying power? would they rather have their brethren stripped naked and paraded around/photos taken and posted on the internet..... or would they rather have the alternative which was there before (..... WHICH AGAIN was put in place by the US/UK!) Or maybe we should ask an Iraqi Kurd.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted May 23, 2011 Share Posted May 23, 2011 I feel what we can learn from this thread is the answer to the original question, are religious people nuts? Its clear from the last 7 pages that those with a strong belief in religion have gone very wrong in the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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