Geezabloke Posted July 2, 2005 Share Posted July 2, 2005 Has anyone got a how to guide on reloacting the battery to the boot? I know in theory its a simple case of moving the battery and running new cables? But what are the cable gauges? Are the cables routed through or under the car? Should a fuse / breaker be fitted in the engine bay? What size? How do you secure the battery in the boot? Is this safe to do as the battery is then in effect inside the car? And anything else i may have missed? Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Has anyone got a how to guide on reloacting the battery to the boot? I know in theory its a simple case of moving the battery and running new cables? But what are the cable gauges? Are the cables routed through or under the car? Should a fuse / breaker be fitted in the engine bay? What size? How do you secure the battery in the boot? Is this safe to do as the battery is then in effect inside the car? And anything else i may have missed? Dave Use a race type dry battery, I can do these at excellent prices. So long as you don't have a load of radio / stereo junk to run (and I would imagine, as you are so rightly concerned anout weight and its location, you haven't), then such a battery will cope fine. Earth the negative terminal with an earth strap to sheet metal, and use arc welding cable for the run to the front of the car. This is cheaper than buying the exact same stuff under the term "starter cable". Welding supplies places in the Yellow Pages will locate one near you. Get the terminals put on by someone with the correct (large and expensive) crimping tool. You want the battery as close to the centre of gravity of the car as possible, for best handling, and high up and fairly far back for best drag race traction. I'd put it on the floor behind the passenger seat myself, but you may not fancy taking up the back footwell space, not that the back seats in my MKIV ever got used for anything other than carting wheels and tyres about. I wouldn't worry about venting it, myself, although strictly speaking it should be in a ventilated area. I suppose one could argue that the interior is ventilated, depending on heater control operation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Use a race type dry battery, I can do these at excellent prices. So long as you don't have a load of radio / stereo junk to run (and I would imagine, as you are so rightly concerned anout weight and its location, you haven't), then such a battery will cope fine. Earth the negative terminal with an earth strap to sheet metal, and use arc welding cable for the run to the front of the car. This is cheaper than buying the exact same stuff under the term "starter cable". Welding supplies places in the Yellow Pages will locate one near you. Get the terminals put on by someone with the correct (large and expensive) crimping tool. You want the battery as close to the centre of gravity of the car as possible, for best handling, and high up and fairly far back for best drag race traction. I'd put it on the floor behind the passenger seat myself, but you may not fancy taking up the back footwell space, not that the back seats in my MKIV ever got used for anything other than carting wheels and tyres about. I wouldn't worry about venting it, myself, although strictly speaking it should be in a ventilated area. I suppose one could argue that the interior is ventilated, depending on heater control operation... Great POst Chris, Im after the same setup for the same reason. What sort of price for the Battery and Im pretty minimal on electrics, although teh Electric fans are calling me! (No comments please) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 Great POst Chris, Im after the same setup for the same reason. What sort of price for the Battery and Im pretty minimal on electrics, although teh Electric fans are calling me! (No comments please) Agreed, excellent advice, Chris you have email, I would like one of those batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted February 3, 2006 Share Posted February 3, 2006 I have found a source of small quanties of arc cable at very reasonable prices, but have three options 160. 200 and 300 amp. Will the 25mm 160 be adequate or should I go higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Monkey Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Terminator, I have been told that standard Guage 1 wire, can only handle about 160amps. Regards battery relocation, I am just doing the same myself, I will post a "how-to" when I have got it done. I bought the cable (4 guage) under the supervision of Matt H, from this forum, who works for Sextons in Maidstone (sorry for the plug) - he said this would be adequate for the job. Regards, the battery: If you are locating the battery in the passenger compartment, you should go for a sealed race type, which are Gel and do not leak. Wet type produce hydrogen gas when being charged and they need to be vented to the atmosphere. If Chris W, can get the Varley Red Race battery's, have a look at them, as some of them are small enough to still be placed in the engine bay, but down the side of the bulkhead - this would enable you to keep your exisiting wiring. I found this recently, if this would help, for the Pulsar, although a 2.0L but I guess the CCA would not be far from ours....... Battery Boot Mounting Parts Needed 4AWG Ring Terminal (2off) 4AWG Cable- Red (6m) 4AWG Cable- Black (6m) Battery (Either Original Or Different Model) 4AWG Terminals for chosen Battery (2off) Fibre Glass Battery Box (1off) Yellow Large Ring Crimp (2off) 25mm Diameter Plastic Convoluted tubing (1m) Insulation Tape (1 Roll) 10mm diameter, 12mm length Bolt (1off) 10mm Star Washer (1off) 10mm Stiff Nut (1off) 2 Large Self Tapping Screws 2 Repair Washers Self Adhesive Velcro Strips (Hook and Loop) Large Cable Ties (5off) 13mm Inside Diameter Grommet (2off) Self Adhesive Cable Tie Mounts (4off) Tools Powerful Cordless Drill 3mm Drill Bit 8mm Drill Bit 13mm Drill Bit Small Round File Small Insulated Screwdriver Lighter Philips Medium Screwdriver 10mm Socket 12mm Socket 14mm Socket Extension Bar Ratchet Handle 10mm Spanner 12mm Spanner 14mm Spanner Wire Stripper Stanley Knife Blade Side Cutters Wire Brush/Wire Brush Drill Attachment Multi Meter Tipex Bottle WD40/Vaseline 4mm Allen/Hex Key WARNING: AS WITH ALL WORK YOU DO ON YOUR CAR, PLEASE BE CAREFUL AND USE COMMON SENSE - IF IT'S HEAVY, DON'T LIFT IT ON YOUR OWN. IF IT'S HOT, DON'T TOUCH IT, OR USE A RAG TO PICK IT UP. IF IT'S SHARP, WEAR GLOVES. IF YOU NEED TO DISTUB ANY ELECTRICAL COMPONENTS, MAKE SURE YOU DISCONNECT YOUR BATTERY FIRST AND IF IT'S ACID - LEAVE IT WELL ALONE! Note: - I’m unsure why a separate cable was used for the earth and why it wasn’t not earthed through the body, but this is how it was fitted in my first GTi-R, and how it has been refitted into my second GTi-R. I have quoted 6m of each cable to be on the safe side. Procedure- Boot Mounting 1. Place your alarm (if fitted) into valet mode or a mode which allow disconnection of power without a siren 2. Open the bootlid and remove the parcel shelf to help access 3. Remove the carpet covering the space saver wheel 4. Unscrew and remove the space saver wheel 5. Remove the boot carpet 6. The best place to mount the battery box is in the rear left corner right near the light cluster. You should see two plastic threaded inserts in the boot floor, these will be the securing points for the battery box. 7. Paint the plastic inserts with Tipex, use quite a lot to get a good thickness of Tipex. Place the battery box in position in the boot and press down so that the Tipex makes contact with the bottom of the battery box. 8. Remove the box from the boot and let the Tipex dry so things don’t get too messy. 9. Pilot drill from the bottom of the battery box through the Tipex marks with the 3mm drill bit 10. Open the hole out to 8mm or whatever size of self tapping screws you are using 11. Trial fit the battery box in the boot and screw down loosely to start the threads in the plastic 12. Remove the battery box again and refit the boot carpet 13. Place the battery box back in position, heat the end of the small screwdriver with the lighter and melt through the boot carpet were the plastic insert are 14. Place the two repair washers on the self tapping screws and screw the battery box down to the boot floor 15. Stick some Velcro to the lid and the flange of the battery box Procedure- Cable Routing 1. Release the clips and unhook the lower rear seat cushion, exposing the seat belt buckles 2. Release the tension on and remove the bolt attaching the passenger side seat belt to the body at floor level 3. Unclip the lower half of the rear passenger side door card 4. Unclip the passenger side sill trim 5. Unclip the passenger side footwell trim (Covering the ABS computer if fitted) 6. Unscrew and unclip trim which covers the ECU on the passenger side of the centre console 7. Unbolt the passenger side seat, disconnect the seat belt sensor and remove from the car 8. The floor carpet should now be able to be lifted 9. Looking on the bulkhead behind the ECU you should see the main grommet for the cars wiring 10. Check in the engine bay first for clearance, then pilot drill a 3mm hole approximately 60mm to the left of the main wiring grommet 11. Check in the engine bay again, and pilot drill a second 3mm hole approximately 25mm to the left of the first drilled hole 12. Check in the engine bay again, and then open both holes up to 13mm diameter 13. Using the small round file open the 13mm holes until the grommet fit in the hole well, without any creases or deformation 14. Lubricate about 1.5m of the Red cable 15. Push the lubricated red cable though one of the holes slowly, taking care not to push the grommet back through the bulkhead, until the cable reaches the front of the factory battery 16. Lubricate about 1.5m of the Black cable 17. Push the lubricated black cable through the remaining hole slowly, taking care not to push the grommet back through the bulkhead, until the cable reaches the front of the factory battery 18. To make the rest of the job easier, tape the black and red cables together at 300mm intervals 19. Inside the car, run the cable across to the passenger side of the car, cable tying it to one of the brackets for the ABS computer 20. Run the cable under the rib in the car, were the seat mounts (there is a gap in the corner were the rib meets the sill) 21. Stick a self adhesive cable tie mount on the vertical part of the floor pan, close to the passenger side sill 22. Stick two self adhesive cable tie mounts on the floor pan under wear the rear seat cushion sits, about 40mm from the passenger side rear door card 23. Run the cables along these mounts into the boot and cable tie to the supports taking care not to block any of the mounting points for the seat belts, door cards, rear seat cushion, or carpet 24. You should now have a pair of cables in the boot, were the fuel pump cover plate sits 25. Relay the carpet and clip in the sills 26. Refit the ABS computer and ECU trims 27. Refit the sill trim 28. Refit and tighten the seat belt buckle bolt 29. Refit and tighten the passenger side seat (remembering to reconnect the seat belt sensor) 30. Clip the passenger side rear door card back in 31. Refit the rear seat cushion Procedure- Engine Bay Prep 1. Disconnect the two battery terminals to isolate the battery 2. Loosen the 2off 10mm Nuts and remove the long battery ‘clamps’ 3. Remove the battery and the long clamps from the car 4. Remove the plastic battery tray insert 5. Remove the 4off bolts and remove the plastic battery tray 6. Unclip the two black plastic clips holding a cable loom to a bracket on the inner wing 7. Remove the 2off 10mm bolts and remove the aforementioned bracket 8. You should now have a large factory 4AWG earth cable coming from the engine near the thermostat housing to the negative battery terminal, bolted and earthed half way to the chassis and maybe a few smaller earth’s from auxiliary equipment like alarms 9. You will also have a large factory 4AWG power cable coming from the alternator or the starter motor (not sure which) with a large red multi plug interlocked to it and maybe a few smaller 12v positive supplies from auxiliary equipment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Monkey Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Phew! and the rest: Procedure- Earth Cable 1. Earth first- Now is a good time to clean up all the earth’s, remove the 12mm bolt from the engine and wire brush the engine and the ring terminal, refit the earth to the engine. Remove the bolt that is securing the bonding lead to the chassis and cut the cable to the right of that earth point. (Battery terminal and a length of 4AWG earth cable will fall to the floor) 2. Collect all the small earth’s together, shorten the long wires, as they will only need to reach the chassis earth point, strip the ends, and twist together. Fit one of the large yellow ring crimps to the end 3. Using the wire brush clean up the chassis earth point, removing a small area of paint if possible 4. Cut the new Earth (Black) cable either using a series of cuts with the wire cutters or a hacksaw so that it will happily reach the standard chassis earth point. 5. Feed a length of the convoluted black plastic tubing down the red and black cables to the bulkhead and trim to length. 6. Using the Stanley knife blade, carefully remove 10-12mm of the insulation of the black cable and twist to prevent fraying 7. Insert the cable into a 4 AWG ring terminal and tighten the Grub screw down tightly 8. Now everything need connecting, place the standard earth point over the hole, then the new 4 AWG black earth cable, then the new yellow ring crimp, install the original bolt and tighten down Procedure- 12v Live Cable 1. This is complicated to explain without pictures. The connection for the original main power cable goes straight to the original battery terminal. I used the fatigue method to snap the ‘loop’ of the clamp off, and I was left with a sort of spade terminal with ridges at the sides which I also fatigued off. 2. I also fatigued the ridges off the ‘spade’ terminal that is on the large red multi plug. 3. Collect all the smaller 12v positive supplies together, strip the ends, and twist together. Fit the large yellow crimp to the end. 4. You should now have a Big Red New 4 AWG cable, a small yellow ring crimp, and two factory altered spades with holes in. 5. Cut the new cable back to roughly the same length as the New earth, strip 10-12mm of insulation back as before and fit the 4 AWG ring terminal and tighten the grub screw down as before. 6. I would seriously advise to put some more convoluted tubing on the cable to be pulled over the new connection as a lot of current will be going through here 7. Use the short bolt, washer and nut to connect the 4 terminals together Test Time- Engine Bay 1. With the multi meter set to continuity (beeps when black and red are touched) check that all the earth’s are electrically connected together and that the new connection is earthed well to the chassis. (try Earthing on a total separate earth point) 2. Make sure the positive connection isn’t touching the chassis and check for short circuits by touching one probe on the 12v connection and the other on the earth point, if no beep is heard, then no short circuits re present. Test Time- Boot 1. Press on of the probes into the black cable and touch a separate earth like a boot striker or fuel pump cover guard and hope you hear a beep. Procedure- Engine Bay Tidy Up 1. Wrap the 12v positive connection in insulation tape, thickly, not leaving any metal exposed. Then pull the convoluted tubing over the connection and tape to the cable and wrap in more insulation. Positive cable should now be completely insulated from all short circuits. 2. Push the cables down to the battery tray mount and cable tie it to the chassis to keep it all neat and tidy. 3. Cut off all cable tie tails, old cable ties, plastic clips that aren’t being used etc and shut bonnet. Procedure- Boot Final Test and Wire Up 1. Place a probe into the red cable again and press the other probe on an earth, hope no beep is heard, to indicate no more short circuits. 2. Stick some Velcro (hook OR loop) to the bottom of the battery, and stick the opposing Velcro to the inside of the battery box to stop it sliding about inside the box during cornering. 3. Tuck the cable under the boot carpet, and bring up the left-hand side of the battery box, entering through one of the recesses in the battery box lid. 4. Trim the Two cables to length to allow connection to the battery poles. 5. Strip back 10-12mm of insulation off each cable and fit the battery clamps to the cables 6. Fit the battery clamps onto the correct poles of the battery and tighten. Procedure- Test 1. Turn the ignition key to position 2, check that all the lights on the dash illuminate. Turn engine over and start car to test. Check all systems including the alarm are operating as normal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Just about the most comprehensive install instruction/guide I have ever seen. This should end up in a tech FAQ when edited for the MKIV. I am sure this will be a point of reference for quite a few of us now and in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 You ONLY ned the positive wire going to the front of the car. The chassis is the negative, you only need a negative lead long enough to go from battery negative to the nearest sheet metal by the battery, pointless running the negative to the front of the car from the back! I use 200 amp cable myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest electricmini Posted February 4, 2006 Share Posted February 4, 2006 Hi guys, This thread caught my eye ( why am I reading this stuff on a Saturday night? I have no social life... ;-) If anyone in the S Wales / S West area is doing this, and needs BIG terminals crimping onto welding cable, I have a set of monster crimpers here, which I used for the main battery cables on my electric Mini. They'll happily deal with anything from 10 sq mm wire right up to 95 sq mm (hosepipe size!!) Crimping is free (with coffee thrown in too), if you turn up in your Supe! ;-) Regards Richard (electricmini) - soon to have a Supe again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prof. Monkey Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 Rich, you are a gentleman and a scholar. Shame I live in HULL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 My thoughts exactly. Considered home calls:) PS mines milk no sugar ta. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hob Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 You ONLY ned the positive wire going to the front of the car. The chassis is the negative, How does the circuit "flow" ? I thought you needed a closed loop to run to the starter motor, or have I missed the ball on this one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest electricmini Posted February 5, 2006 Share Posted February 5, 2006 How does the circuit "flow" ? I thought you needed a closed loop to run to the starter motor, or have I missed the ball on this one The metal bodywork IS the other side of the circuit. The current goes from the battery + terminal, through the starter, through the engine block & engine earth strap, then back through the body work to the battery - terminal (via the battery -ve lead bolted to the body). This is why having a decent engine earth strap (or two even!) is so important - if the connection's naff then all bets are off when you try to crank the engine over! Having the negative terminal of the battery connected to the bodywork also helps prevent corrosion (some classic cars had positive earth systems, loads of problems with corrosion) HTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 Agreed, excellent advice, Chris you have email, I would like one of those batteries. Red Top 30 is 120 plus VAT Red Top 40 is 140 plus VAT Red Top 60 is 180 plus VAT all plus 10.50 P&P See Demon Tweaks catalogue for their pricing ( 144, 157, 233 plus VAT respectively) and for sizes and current hndling capacities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted February 6, 2006 Share Posted February 6, 2006 Red Top 30 is 120 plus VAT Red Top 40 is 140 plus VAT Red Top 60 is 180 plus VAT all plus 10.50 P&P See Demon Tweaks catalogue for their pricing ( 144, 157, 233 plus VAT respectively) and for sizes and current hndling capacities. Good prices Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wez Posted December 27, 2006 Share Posted December 27, 2006 Thread revival Can this be made a sticky or FAQ, great right up and information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaan W Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Now I know this is an old thread, but will disconecting the battery effect anything on the car such as alarm, syvecs or any other electrical device? Just wanted to know as its not worth starting a new thread to ask a question like this. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaan W Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Can anyone confirm if it is safe to unplug the battery?? Or can it reset anything such as syvecs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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