Lbm Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I would love to hear more specifically what questions he was asking that made him "find" religion. Well, it all started with the face of the Lord embedded in a tin of Hammerite. Then his mates shouted "Jesus! What have you done to your car?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 Well, it all started with the face of the Lord embedded in a tin of Hammerite. Then his mates shouted "Jesus! What have you done to your car?" That made me chuckle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 19, 2011 Share Posted April 19, 2011 I would love to hear more specifically what questions he was asking that made him "find" religion. that's for him to answer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 In recent times I've changed my view on something. Even though I do not believe in God myself, I no longer feel that people who do are fools. I believe they are sincere. Likewise, I do not believe that people who do not believe in God are fools either. They too are sincere. So Jazz it's all good, but be careful not to think that non-believers are fools. That's....err..if I may say so, a little...umm...foolish? Peace out and bananas I wouldn't say all believers are fools either, I just think most just lack that something that allows them to accept the harsh truth of their mortality. For some, religion offers a way to by pass this and accept the inequalities and unfairness in life because God is there at the end to judge and right all wrongs. It in essence a lovely thought and probably offers a lot of comfort to those that need it. The fools are definitely the ones that take it too far, like that moron from ‘My Brother the Islamist’. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 He's found religion through questioning ... He's found religion through faith - the complete opposite of questioning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 The fools are definitely the ones that take it too far, like that moron from ‘My Brother the Islamist’. His brother? He was a moron, he'd been utterly brainwashed. I was quite glad to see though that at the end, the younger guy had left the extremists to get a better understanding/ a more rounded view of Islam. I can't remember exactly what he said, but it showed wisdom beyon his years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 He's found religion through faith - the complete opposite of questioning The same can be said about people who don't have an inclination towards religion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 The same can be said about people who don't have an inclination towards religion? Faith in what exactly? I'm not massively religious, but I prefer the thought of spending eternity with my friends and family, to being nothing more than a rotting assortment of medical waste, who's experience, wisdom and knowledge has mostly gone to waste Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 The same can be said about people who don't have an inclination towards religion? You're kidding right? I asked question after question in RE in school and all it got me was thrown out of the class. I'm a VERY logical person and I need things to make sense in order to even think about believing them. I know more about religion than most people who say they are religious, when in actual fact they got water on the head a few months after birth and haven't graced a holy place since. The difference being I paid attention to all religions, not just the one my Parents, Family, Friends, football team were associated with. I've read the school versions of the old testament, the new testament and been given every opportunity in life to follow any faith that I wish. I've been to church, I said my prayers everyday throughout school, I've been to religious weddings, funerals, christenings etc etc etc. In the end I chose to believe that anything written by man is simply that, written by man. As has already been touched on there is a great side to religion. Peace, order, hope and faith all stemmed from the people telling stories of heaven, earth, Jesus and God (or the variants that come with said religion) and that lead to the main structure of the modern day society we sometimes enjoy. I take faith in the very context of the word. Nothing written by a man can ever be quoted as the word of God. It is far more likely to be the word of a loon wanting people to hang on their every word, by telling stories of how God spoke to him etc. Poverty led to people needing something to believe in, a place that all their needs and wants would be met. They were told of God and heaven, and how if they prayed to him everyday they would get into heaven. Notice how religion is so much more relaxed than it was years ago? We used to burn witches FFS, did we get them all at some point or did people start to catch on to what was really happening? Is that God getting hipper, or is it simply that the churches are loosing their grasp on the followers? The day God speaks to me is the day I'll have faith in a God, until then you are all wrong IMO. Take from that what you will, I'm Agnostic though so don't confuse me with a preaching aethiest. I strongly disagree with modern day organised religion (war, hate and greed bundled in to take money from the poor and control population, culture and society) but I have nothing to categorically state that a God doesn't exist so until I die or meet it/them/her/him, or until someone has undeniable proof one way or the other, noone will convince me otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Faith in what exactly? I'm not massively religious, but I prefer the thought of spending eternity with my friends and family, to being nothing more than a rotting assortment of medical waste, who's experience, wisdom and knowledge has mostly gone to waste Bingo bango. I've always said the same. I hope there is a god, I hope there is a heaven and I hope that I am deemed as worthy to get there. That is the whole extent of my faith, the proper meaning of the word.... hope. I'm 99.99999999999 certain there isn't and I won't, but that doesn't stop me hoping there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I hope that I am deemed as worthy to get there. As far as I understand it, I think this is your downfall: I'm 99.99999999999 certain there isn't I wonder if there are any religions out there that allow you access to heaven if you don't believe? That would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJ Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 You're kidding right? etc etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 As far as I understand it, I think this is your downfall: I like to think I'd give the big man a giggle I wonder if there are any religions out there that allow you access to heaven if you don't believe? That would be nice. Is that based on a multiple heavens scenario? Where each seperate heaven actually exists? I think I'd be picking the one with the virgins If there is only one that is correct, I guess it would be a lottery to choose the correct one. Off the top of my head I think Scientology would be the most impressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 You're kidding right? I asked question after question in RE in school and all it got me was thrown out of the class. I'm a VERY logical person and I need things to make sense in order to even think about believing them. I know more about religion than most people who say they are religious, when in actual fact they got water on the head a few months after birth and haven't graced a holy place since. The difference being I paid attention to all religions, not just the one my Parents, Family, Friends, football team were associated with. I've read the school versions of the old testament, the new testament and been given every opportunity in life to follow any faith that I wish. I've been to church, I said my prayers everyday throughout school, I've been to religious weddings, funerals, christenings etc etc etc. In the end I chose to believe that anything written by man is simply that, written by man. As has already been touched on there is a great side to religion. Peace, order, hope and faith all stemmed from the people telling stories of heaven, earth, Jesus and God (or the variants that come with said religion) and that lead to the main structure of the modern day society we sometimes enjoy. I take faith in the very context of the word. Nothing written by a man can ever be quoted as the word of God. It is far more likely to be the word of a loon wanting people to hang on their every word, by telling stories of how God spoke to him etc. Poverty led to people needing something to believe in, a place that all their needs and wants would be met. They were told of God and heaven, and how if they prayed to him everyday they would get into heaven. Notice how religion is so much more relaxed than it was years ago? We used to burn witches FFS, did we get them all at some point or did people start to catch on to what was really happening? Is that God getting hipper, or is it simply that the churches are loosing their grasp on the followers? The day God speaks to me is the day I'll have faith in a God, until then you are all wrong IMO. Take from that what you will, I'm Agnostic though so don't confuse me with a preaching aethiest. I strongly disagree with modern day organised religion (war, hate and greed bundled in to take money from the poor and control population, culture and society) but I have nothing to categorically state that a God doesn't exist so until I die or meet it/them/her/him, or until someone has undeniable proof one way or the other, noone will convince me otherwise. with all due respect, sounds like you've only looked into/have been exposed to Christianity - have you researched Sikhism, buddism, judaism, islam? one can say they all have a very common base/belief system but that's just the same as saying a bucket of green paint is the same as a bucket of blue paint. most people know of religion what is "taught" to them at school, or what they hear from friends.. deeper questions concerning ones own being and existence cannot be answered with the limited knowledge obtained from these sources. when i was in school 17 years ago, evolution was taught as a theory - today, it's taught as "fact"... when the actual "fact" of the theory still hasn't been established. anyway, i'm not looking to go too far off topic here... so in response to the OPs question... yes, i believe the illuminati exist, and within freemasonary/illuminati exist degrees of knowledge, the higher up you are the more "secrets" you know. and yes... i too believe they are satans minions out to do his handy work in preparation for the arrival of the-dajjal (anti-christ) (and before anyone jumps the gun and brands me a loon... i too didnt believe they existed until i did my own research and started to see the world for what it is... one big lie) also youtube "shadows in motion" -it's a documentary made around 20 years ago, but it's content is mind blowing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Off the top of my head I think Scientology would be the most impressive What does Scientology offer over the others? Free mini-bar would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 i too believe they are satans minions out to do his handy work in preparation for the arrival of the-dajjal (anti-christ) I'm sorry penguin, but that did make me lol. I'm intrigued though. Can you confirm what Satan's minions do on a day to day basis? When is the Dajjal expected to arrive btw? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 (and before anyone jumps the gun and brands me a loon... i too didnt believe they existed until i did my own research and started to see the world for what it is... one big lie) At least you brought it back on topic. By the way, I don't think you're a loon. I haven't met you yet. One thing though, even if the world is one big lie, perhaps that's just your discovery that humans are self-serving, duplicitous and a tad greedy - still don't need to believe in religion to smooth things over. Just work the world to your advantage, without screwing people along the way? Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 with all due respect, sounds like you've only looked into/have been exposed to Christianity - have you researched Sikhism, buddism, judaism, islam? one can say they all have a very common base/belief system but that's just the same as saying a bucket of green paint is the same as a bucket of blue paint. most people know of religion what is "taught" to them at school, or what they hear from friends.. deeper questions concerning ones own being and existence cannot be answered with the limited knowledge obtained from these sources. when i was in school 17 years ago, evolution was taught as a theory - today, it's taught as "fact"... when the actual "fact" of the theory still hasn't been established. anyway, i'm not looking to go too far off topic here... so in response to the OPs question... yes, i believe the illuminati exist, and within freemasonary/illuminati exist degrees of knowledge, the higher up you are the more "secrets" you know. and yes... i too believe they are satans minions out to do his handy work in preparation for the arrival of the-dajjal (anti-christ) (and before anyone jumps the gun and brands me a loon... i too didnt believe they existed until i did my own research and started to see the world for what it is... one big lie) also youtube "shadows in motion" -it's a documentary made around 20 years ago, but it's content is mind blowing. Yup, all of them. I went to a non-denominational highschool so I was taught about all the different religions. The Christianity part was the main focus, due to living in Britian, also Buddhism and Judaism took a bit of time to get through but we touched on all the other major religions also for a few weeks at a time. It is very easy to look over the top of all religions if you ask the right questions about the purpose of them. Rather than just jumping on the bandwagon and asking questions within the religion itself. When something is created for a purpose, you can replicate it and make it look different while still serving exactly the same purpose. The theory of evolution is a theory, the existance of evolution is a fact. I don't understand what you are getting at there? It is a cold hard fact that we evolved from mammals close to todays ape families, has been for years.. What isn't a fact is the exact timescales, missing parts etc etc hence the experts theorise on the bits they don't know. Perhaps that is the parts they have pieced together over the last few years? I know they found skeletal remains not so long ago, meant to be one of the missing pieces of the puzzle. If Adam and Eve were the first 2 on earth, and Kain and Able were then born..... are we all basically inbred? Where did the hookers come from that Kain was banging? Ahh.... that's all a metaphor.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 What does Scientology offer over the others? Free mini-bar would be nice. It's relatively new so I can't say I've studied that one. From what I understand a big spaceship will be coming to pick us all up soon though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 I'm sorry penguin, but that did make me lol. I'm intrigued though. Can you confirm what Satan's minions do on a day to day basis? When is the Dajjal expected to arrive btw? well for starters, i don't think they have "day to day" plans, rather they play the long game... sometimes over months, other times over centuries. as for the dajjal, watch the "shadows in motion" vid on youtube and it'll give you a much better understanding of events leading upto to his arrival are Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 It is a cold hard fact that we evolved from mammals close to todays ape families, has been for years.. What isn't a fact is the exact timescales, missing parts etc etc hence the experts theorise on the bits they don't know. Perhaps that is the parts they have pieced together over the last few years? I know they found skeletal remains not so long ago, meant to be one of the missing pieces of the puzzle. this is the bit i have an issue with - no scientist has ever been able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that man came from monkeys... yet as you've stated above, "it's a cold hard fact".... it's not. this is why organised "religion" such as science is just as bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 At least you brought it back on topic. By the way, I don't think you're a loon. I haven't met you yet. One thing though, even if the world is one big lie, perhaps that's just your discovery that humans are self-serving, duplicitous and a tad greedy - still don't need to believe in religion to smooth things over. Just work the world to your advantage, without screwing people along the way? Just a thought. no, the "human being experience" isn't the thing which lead me to believe in an afterlife, it's the beauty within the world itself which did... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbm Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 no, the "human being experience" isn't the thing which lead me to believe in an afterlife, it's the beauty within the world itself which did... Ah, ok this is the bit i have an issue with - no scientist has ever been able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that man came from monkeys... Well he certainly didn't evolve from a shark. Or did he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
penguin Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 Ah, ok Well he certainly didn't evolve from a shark. Or did he? why does man have to evolve from another species in the first place? when you think of "god" - what's your understanding of him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted April 20, 2011 Share Posted April 20, 2011 this is the bit i have an issue with - no scientist has ever been able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that man came from monkeys... yet as you've stated above, "it's a cold hard fact".... it's not. this is why organised "religion" such as science is just as bad. I think that was the missing link that they found though. I'm not a scientist, but science is based on finding facts and when something comes out as a theory.. it's a theory. When something is proven, it's a fact. They don't lie or fill in gaps with unknowns, they theorise and until it is proven they hang it on the "fiction" shelf. Edit: why does man have to evolve from another species in the first place? That was the part that was missing though. They were trying to figure out why man evolved from monkeys (excuse the lack of scientific patter) and yet other monkeys didn't. It turns out that we were in fact a seperate species with a relation to the ancestors of the current ape families. We didn't evolve from one species to another, we simply grew taller and changed to our surroundings over 1000s of years. Evolution is fact, especially in man. Get yourself down to a good old fashioned museum and see how many men can fit into a proper suit of armour from the medeival era. Check out bacteria in a petrie dish, that's evolution in the palm of your hand. I think the question now is about the primordial soup. The scientists can explain pretty much everything after that, but they can't figure out what actually caused the leap from single cell to multiple cell organisms. From what they understand it happened over a few 1000 years when it should have taken a few million. Of course when that was realeased religious folks jumped all over it and said "that was god, that was the birth of adam and even in a metaphorical basis". I don't even think metaphor was a word when the old testament was written lol. In saying that, that was from my school days so that may have been answered now too. Of course it will be theorised, one theory is that aliens came and wee'd in it (not really but one theory is that aliens started off the chain). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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