stevie_b Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 I've had a pumped shower fitted to my low pressure water system. The pump needs to be fed hot water via a Surrey flange, but I'm not sure if the plumber has actually fitted one. The system suffers from airlocks, and sometimes the water flow from the shower pulses (as if there are small airlocks). I've been looking at photos of flanges on the internet, and they look different to my plumbing in the photo. Can anyone confirm if this is a Surrey flange or not? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted April 6, 2011 Share Posted April 6, 2011 It looks to have a warix flange fitted to the top tapping (expansion) which is correct However, it's been connected wrong! The pipe work for the pump should come out the top, not the side of the flange! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 Thanks for that info, very useful. I remember the pump's instructions specifically mentioned that a Surrey flange needs to be fitted. Would a Warix do the same job, and generally be just as capable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 They're identical, except a warix flange has female threads, a Surrey has male. That's because us northerners have male tailings on our cylinders, and you southerners have female. There's pros and cons to each method. The other type you can use (that potentially has higher flow rates) is the essex flange, though they can be a PITA to install. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Hehe. He said flange. *snigger* (sorry, carry on). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j_jza80 Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted April 7, 2011 Author Share Posted April 7, 2011 Many thanks j_jza80, that's really useful. Charlotte: love it when you talk drrrrrty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I like flange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony tt Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Hehe. He said flange. *snigger* (sorry, carry on). Thats what i was thinking haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony tt Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 I like flange Hell yeah! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Hell yeah! Surrey flange isn't too shabby either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlotte Posted April 7, 2011 Share Posted April 7, 2011 Charlotte: love it when you talk drrrrrty! Sorry - I appear to have started something un-serious in your plumbing thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 j_jza80: apologies for picking your brains about flanges again, but could you tell me how you can tell it's a Warix and not a Surrey flange? I'll speak to the plumber soon and it's useful to know a bit of what I'm talking about. Also, does the pump's feed need a U-bend in it to prevent airlocks, or should connecting the pump inlet to the correct flange outlet be sufficient? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 how you can tell it's a Warix and not a Surrey flange? Accent usually works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foodfreak Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I've recentley install a 1.5 bar shower pump with the same flange. no problems with 'hunting' or air being drawn in. As previously stated, the shower feed must come from the top outlet. The top outlet has a dip tube that goes down inside the cylinder to prevent air being drawn in. you do not need a 'u' bend in the pipework to the pump. do you have a direct independant cold feed from the water tank to the shower pump? if not, the flow rate of the pipe work may be insufficient if both the cylinder( hot) & the cold feeds to the pump are tee'd off together Do not run the pump too long if this is happening.............it WILL b*****er the pump. hope this helps edit......how big is your cold water storage tank? How much 'head' ( above the hot water cylinder?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted April 13, 2011 Author Share Posted April 13, 2011 Yes, the pump has it's own cold feed direct from the cold tank in the loft. The cold tank is fairly large. By head, do you mean the vertical distance from the top of the hot cylinder to the bottom of the cold tank? I would estimate about 5 feet but I might be out by a bit. What I'm thinking is that maybe the plumber has connected up the Warix thinking it works the same way as a Surrey. From the attached document it looks like the pump outlet from a Surrey comes off at the side, whereas the Warix's pump outlet is the vertical outlet (not the side outlet). Hopefully it won't but just in case this type of conversation takes place I'd like to know how to tell a Surrey from a Warix: Me: looks like you've connected up the flange the wrong way. Plumber: no, I've fitted a Surrey flange and that takes it's pump feed from the side. Me: A Warix takes it's pump feed from the top, and I can tell you've fitted a Warix because ....... (complete this sentence ) PS I hope Charlotte doesn't see this. All this talk of flanges, male, female and "head" and she'll have a field day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foodfreak Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 http://www.bathroom2u.com/images/large_images/AC403.jpg - surrey flange http://www.plumblineltd.co.uk/image/cache/data/platinum/00001429-001-500x500.jpg - warix flange if you look at the body of the flange, a surrey flange is fixed, the warix body will rotate. it's not very clear in the picture, but it looks like a warix flange to me............just get the pipework swapped around, shouldn't take long John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foodfreak Posted April 16, 2011 Share Posted April 16, 2011 How did you get on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted April 18, 2011 Author Share Posted April 18, 2011 No update yet: I'm trying to arrange a time that the plumber can return and fix the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdistc Posted April 18, 2011 Share Posted April 18, 2011 Just saw this thread, and normally I wouldn't be one for sexual double entendres *ooh aah Matron* but this one is simply fantastic, Steve: I've been looking at photos of flanges on the internet, and they look different to my plumbing... As long as you don't suggest, with your wife within earshot, that you need a professional with lead pipes to come over and sort out your old boiler In all seriousness, though, hope it all get sorted out quick smart, mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted April 23, 2011 Author Share Posted April 23, 2011 The plumber came round the other day to fix it, and he showed me an installation diagram he was given by the plumbing merchants who sold him the flange. The diagram is for a Surrey flange, so that's how he connected it. The plumber's still an apprentice so I can't be too hard on him, and it looks like the plumber's merchant *might* have given him some duff info. He's fitted an automatic air vent to the horizontal take-off to bleed the air out whenever it's needed. In response to foodfreak's useful post 17 above, it does look like the horizontal take-off from my flange could swivel round if the couplings were loosened. I can see what could be an orange rubber O-ring between the horizontal outlet's collar and the rest of the flange, which again indicates that the outlet could spin around in the vertical piece. Is there a certain way of telling whether it's a Warix or a Surrey once it's been fitted, preferably without undoing anything? The plumber said something about needing a 1/2 inch flange instead of the usual 3/4 inch: does this mean anything to the plumbers on here? I realise (guess) that he's talking about the pipe diameter, but would that make a difference as to whether a Warix, Surrey or something else needed to be fitted? I would guess all these flanges come in all of the common sizes, e.g. can you buy a 1/2 inch Warix? Edit: just found this: http://boards.fool.co.uk/10013-ronjohnjen-i-wondered-if-8463189.aspx?sort=postdate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foodfreak Posted April 23, 2011 Share Posted April 23, 2011 in short, yes, you can get a warrix in 1/2 inch. My cylinder had 1/2 inch thread ( which the flange srews into)....my plumber's merchant had to order it it in, took two days 'The plumber said something about needing a 1/2 inch flange instead of the usual 3/4 inch: ' what is he on about?. the flange clearly fits the cylinder o.k as I said before, just make him swap the pipework around.......should be job done shame you're too far from me, I'd do it for you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted April 24, 2011 Author Share Posted April 24, 2011 Update: I think it's plumbed in correctly. He's got one of these fitted, and the pump outlet is the horizontal one: http://www.buildersmerchantsjournal.net/news/news.asp?id=7274&title=Stuart+Flange+eases+installation This Stuart flange seems to be a combination of a Surrey and Warix, because the pump outlet is horizontal but can be swivelled to any direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foodfreak Posted April 24, 2011 Share Posted April 24, 2011 Has he tried reducing the output on the pump valves to see if the 'hunting' goes away? if it does, the 'feeds are not supplying enough water Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie_b Posted April 24, 2011 Author Share Posted April 24, 2011 AFAIK my pump doesn't have an adjuster to control the flow rate. It's a basic 1.5 bar one from Wickes. I'd be surprised the pump wasn't getting enough water because it's fed by dedicated 22mm pipe... but this thread has shown how little I know about domestic plumbing! I'll give it a few days to see if the new air vent sorts the hunting problem out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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