merckx Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 I still think when you design a car it's got to be capable of performing within it's limits and still being reliable. Even though they're strict with speed limits, when you sell a car like this to someone you still have to realise that it will be driven fast and well beyond the speed limit. Toyota wouldn't have taken the risk in hoping that those who bought the Supra over there would drive slower, they cannot afford to have failures in such a big market. Someone on Supraforums mentioned that the strict noise legislations might have something to do with it. Still not convinced though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 I, too, would expect them to have the scoop on the US-spec. But they didn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 I think as Alex says, it was probably a cost factor as to why the US models didnt have them. Considering how many were produced and what cars they were up against, namely cheaper Vettes and Mustangs anything to reduce the price would be advantageous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merckx Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 I think as Alex says, it was probably a cost factor as to why the US models didnt have them. Considering how many were produced and what cars they were up against, namely cheaper Vettes and Mustangs anything to reduce the price would be advantageous. Yes, I agree ! I'll shut up now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Originally Posted by Bobbeh I think as Alex says, it was probably a cost factor Maybe that's also why the US models had plastic headlights Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Maybe that's also why the US models had plastic headlights did they? I didn't know that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve W2 Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 The UK had the headlight washers for cleaning the headlights - ingenious idea :thumbdown Maybe they had a bonnet scoop to clean the engine with the frickin rain we get over here Or maybe it was to increase the CoD of the car to slow it down to UK speed limits :thumbdown The whole speed limit thing is total bollocks. The only thing the scoop would do is decrease the ambient air temperature to the engine. 95% of the engine cooiling is done via the coolers, that are fed air through the bumper. These cooling devices will be least efficient when travelling at slow speeds as they receive less air. I don't actually know the figures but would bet that the standard radiator isn't too far from its full effieciency at 80mph or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 Maybe that's also why the US models had plastic headlights I wasnt aware of this.... Im pretty sure they come with glass ones, but again if this is the case it may help explain why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 I wasnt aware of this.... Im pretty sure they come with glass ones I could be wrong, It's just that I've seen glass lights often referred to on SF as "Euro Spec Headlights" Unless the US spec ones are actually glass but just don't have the remote beam adjustors? Maybe that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith C Posted June 30, 2005 Share Posted June 30, 2005 No, I also recall something about the US-spec lights being plastic. Steve - the idea is to have some very focussed airflow at a specific point. In addition, a Euro-spec car could conceivably be driven at 155mph every single day for years - this wouldn't happen in the States. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris aka fonz Posted June 30, 2005 Author Share Posted June 30, 2005 I would of been sure this question would of been raised before , ill tell my mate he's asked a good one ! thanx for all your replies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chiefvinso Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 I've lived in America for 3 years and have covered all states mostly by car and it can easily be done - driving at 155 every day. The road speeds varied, but 55mph were common around conjested areas like cities, but out in the middle of nowhere I had been on an 80mph road. The road trips I went on covered alot of different types of roads and you could see miles ahead. Death valley was the hottest area that I had been through and there were some roads there that you could go for it but being in a nissan sentra with no guts and worrying about running out of fuel I took it easy. Smokeys only tended to be around cities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 I've lived in America for 3 years and have covered all states mostly by car and it can easily be done - driving at 155 every day. The road speeds varied, but 55mph were common around conjested areas like cities, but out in the middle of nowhere I had been on an 80mph road. The road trips I went on covered alot of different types of roads and you could see miles ahead. Death valley was the hottest area that I had been through and there were some roads there that you could go for it but being in a nissan sentra with no guts and worrying about running out of fuel I took it easy. Smokeys only tended to be around cities. Yes but that's not the point now is it. I can do 155mph everyday...BUT it's not legal so I don't, the Autobahn's are unlimited (though 155 is the advised limit) and so it's legal to do it. Toyota would have taken legal allowed actions into account, not what someone who disregards the law would do. Not being allowed to do more than say a Japanese model in law abiding mode meant they could save money and not fit the bonnet scoop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jspec Germany Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 American diatribe to follow: Personally, I think the scoop looks g.a.y. Cheapens the look of a stong looking car. JohnA, Bobbeh, Jake are spot on. Headlights - plastic = cheaper, lighter, safety (U.S. is paranoid and stingent about glass on the roads post-accidents). Scoop on hood = costs more and was found to be unpopular. Dild...er washer deals add cost, took away from the look of the car (deemed unpopular on a sportscar), and weren't needed anyway as the weather in most U.S. states is far better than in Europe. Speed was never an issue. Car makers know that the U.S. market for performance car is the largest and strongest in the world. Speed freaks and even the odd grandpa who likes to hammer down from time to time in the U.S. don't mind breaking the speed limit (which doesn't exist in some states in certain areas). You'll find more people wanting to go faster per capita in the U.S. than anywhere in the world. Culture and population alone support this. While it's true the Euro spec cars received a lot of the extras like coolers and other such necessities based on Autoban and other high speed motorway access, cost was the main deciding factor due to the need to compete with IMO cheaper weak low-cost yet high-performance cars. I use this term loosely as the name of the game and main selling point in the U.S. is still 0-60, quarter mile, and stoplight-stoplight racing. BTW, the letter box comment and digs at Americans crack me up. Just my two cents yall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chiefvinso Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 Alex I was just saying that I dont think the scoop is speed related Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve W2 Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 No, I also recall something about the US-spec lights being plastic. Steve - the idea is to have some very focussed airflow at a specific point. In addition, a Euro-spec car could conceivably be driven at 155mph every single day for years - this wouldn't happen in the States. I'm sure in some menial way it helps a little. But how many cracked engine blocks have you heard of for Jap Spec cars? Cars that have been imported and covered similar miles to UK's and haven't had the benfit of this specially designed cooling aid for the really fast UK cars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 nobody mentioned cracked engine blocks. It's there to restore the thermal balance under prolonged full-throttle operation. Coolant flow is not symmetrical among all cylinders for one. Engineers in huge R&D departments like Toyota, stick lots of probes in an engine while they rag it for long periods of time. They found a clear issue at the cyl head between these cylinders. Don't know if they had to option to redesign the cooling passages or whatever, maybe it was a late development stage --- the scoop restored the balance nicely (that's why it is carefully ducted to a specific location of the cyl head) It was part of an article I've read in the past, can't remember where though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chiefvinso Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 So what is the difference between the uk and us? They have a hotter climate to the south and have motorways that exceed our speed limits. I agree it must help with some kind of cooling, but what benefit are they on the uk spec? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 It was part of the "Euro" spec in general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve W2 Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 nobody mentioned cracked engine blocks. It's there to restore the thermal balance under prolonged full-throttle operation. Coolant flow is not symmetrical among all cylinders for one. Engineers in huge R&D departments like Toyota, stick lots of probes in an engine while they rag it for long periods of time. They found a clear issue at the cyl head between these cylinders. Don't know if they had to option to redesign the cooling passages or whatever, maybe it was a late development stage --- the scoop restored the balance nicely (that's why it is carefully ducted to a specific location of the cyl head) It was part of an article I've read in the past, can't remember where though... Thats great, but it can't be that important that they didn't put in all of the cars. And that none of J-Specs that don't have this cooling system and have had no problems. I don't deny it gets more air to the engine bay. I do question that its specifically designed to cool certain cylinders (and not put on all cars as a result) and that it really does much the actual cooling of the engine components. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 ... I do question that its specifically designed to cool certain cylinders.... just look at the ducting dude.... It directs air to a specific point on the cyl head, not generally over the engine like a cosmetic scoop would do.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve W2 Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 just look at the ducting dude.... It directs air to a specific point on the cyl head, not generally over the engine like a cosmetic scoop would do.... I'll take your word for it But you must see my point that if it's that detremental why wasn't it on all cars? Maybe it was just due to extra stresses the UK engine has due the increased weight over the J-Spec. More engine load, more heat and more cooling required Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chiefvinso Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 I agree with steve, why not put them on all? So do the j spec, uk and us spec run at different temps that would justify a scoop only on euro and uk models? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 http://www.max-boost.co.uk/stuff/bonnet_scoop_path.jpg When the bonnet is shut, there is a distinct path for this air to follow. This the top of that path, it moves south quite a bit, to a specific location of the cyl head. Now let's get on with our lives.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest chiefvinso Posted July 1, 2005 Share Posted July 1, 2005 Cant, need to know what the difference in the models are to justify what the scoop is for? Maybe it was an attempt to get a rally lookalike like the scooby! Anyway, it cant make much of a difference as ones without scoops seem to be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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