Ibrar Jabbar Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Has anybody with a UK spec, redirected the headlight washer pipes to the stock intercooler? I have the bumper off the car ATM and was thinking of removing the nozzels and redirecting pipes so they spray directly onto the intercooler, any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supra Pilot Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Very good idea, I have done that many times before on other cars I owned.. Comes in quite handy on drag days(runs) as a little secrect... used to have a seperate tank for ice cold water on race days etc Tell you more later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Think Adam Kindness has done this... although not with the headlamp washers as it was a Jspec. But I am going to do this once I fit the FMIC, along with a water spray controller to control the water. Regards Gaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt C Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 I've heard although the idea is a reasonably good one (Obviously for cool stuff on the I/C) the differences are virtually bugger all. Still, sounds good doesn't it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrar Jabbar Posted January 11, 2003 Author Share Posted January 11, 2003 Dom thanks. Gaz, any more info on the water spray controller or is it a secret. I may just keep it simple and just operate it manually when required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrar Jabbar Posted January 11, 2003 Author Share Posted January 11, 2003 Matt, surely the charge temps will drop by a degree or two if sprayed with cold water, I'm removing the nozzels anyway, so may as well put the pipes to some use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Originally posted by Ibrar Jabbar Dom thanks. Gaz, any more info on the water spray controller or is it a secret. I may just keep it simple and just operate it manually when required. Most things are a secret till ten of the best is over Will PM you the info Gaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt C Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 I have only heard that it's basically useless. I guess it's never been tested, well not by me. If you've got an EGT gauge you'll be able to tell everybody else. The way it was described to me was it's like pouring a little cup of water on an inferno. I doubt the washer jets could produce anywhere near enough water to do anything anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Hey Dudes Ceck out this site http://www.autospeed.com/A_0578/P_1/article.html John:flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Originally posted by Matt C I doubt the washer jets could produce anywhere near enough water to do anything anyway. Have you ever used your headlight washers? Gaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt C Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Originally posted by gazwalker Have you ever used your headlight washers? Gaz. Yup, also used shower gel at the same time as I got a mate to test them whilst I stood and checked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 It will do more for keeping your IC clean than it will in terms of performance gain. A degree or two in the IC will make bugger all difference to charge temps. JMHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Originally posted by Terminator It will do more for keeping your IC clean than it will in terms of performance gain. A degree or two in the IC will make bugger all difference to charge temps. JMHO Well, at least theres some benefit Gaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Originally posted by Ibrar Jabbar Has anybody with a UK spec, redirected the headlight washer pipes to the stock intercooler? I have the bumper off the car ATM and was thinking of removing the nozzels and redirecting pipes so they spray directly onto the intercooler, any thoughts? Proper internal water injection is far more efficient, but IC spray works, for sure. However, there is a period of lag betweening spraying the core and CAT's dropping. In other words, you decide to overtake a car, drop a gear and have a boost switch to trigger the spray. by the time the thermal damper that the mass of the I/c's core represents has absorbed the heat of the charge and the water has coold it, the period of excitement is over. Permanently spraying is too water usage intensive, you'd need a water tank the size of the fuel tank. You need trickery to spray before the cooling is needed, various ideas which to me seem a bit bizarre have been tried. So, yes, it works well, but there are many caveats. Something, IMO, to be used as WELL AS normal internal WI. Iwrote the following on that ages ago: Water injection serves 2 closely related functions on a turbo engined car. Firstly it cools the charge air temperature by utilising the effect known as the latent heat of evaporation. This property can be self demonstrated very easily. If you pour something that evaporates quickly like petrol on your hand it feels very cold. This is the rapidly vaporising spirit removing heat from your skin and bloodstream by the aforementioned process. By spraying a very finely atomised mist of water into the inlet of a turbo engine when under boost conditions the evaporation of the water causes a temperature reduction in the air and fuel intake charge. A cold charge is less likely to be subject to detonation than a hot charge. A cool charge is also denser, able to carry more air and fuel mix per cubic foot. These 2 properties of water injection allow either less chance of detonation at a given boost, maybe allowing lower octane fuel to be used, or to allow a rise in boost pressure usage without detonation. These are very desirable goals for any modifier of a turbo engine, or one using an engine mapped to run on a higher octane fuel than generally available in the UK. Japanese import turbo cars for example. People ask whether squirting water into an engine causes corrosion. In fact this is not a problem, the combustion temperatures under boost ensure the water is turned instantly to steam and is ejected out of the exhaust. The water mist is injected only when high boost is sensed via a supplied pressure sensor switch. The basic combustion process of hydrocarbon fuels causes water to be generated anyway, which is why cars not driven on regular long journeys will rust out a mild steel exhaust system form the INSIDE out. If water is added in the correct volume, via the supplied and calibrated jets, this is not a problem. Even when used alongside a larger or more efficient intercooler, or indeed when an intercooler is used in an application where one was not present as standard, water injection can and does increase charge cooling still further. Water can be stored either in the existent windscreen washer bottle or in a separate dedicated container. In cold conditions it is essential to ad an anti freeze additive to the water to stop pump damage through freezing. Windscreen washer additive serves this purpose fine and the engine won't mind ingesting this solution at all. Or you can add neat Methanol, which is usually the anti freeze additive in washer fluid anyway. Using a 50 / 50 percent by volume water methanol mix will actually help increase the octane of the intake charge as an added benefit. As a yet further advantage the latent heat of evaporation of methanol is extremely high. A win/win situation. It is not however obligatory to use methanol as an additive. All components of the water injection kit that are in contact with the fluid are stainless steel or able to tolerate water and methanol or screen washer additive without degradation. A properly set up system does not use a vast amount of water, in fact a modern car sized screen washer bottle used also for the water injection reservoir will suffice admirably. A water filter is included to keep and sludge out of the pump or jet. This should be checked regularly for contamination and blown out if residue is apparent within. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrar Jabbar Posted January 11, 2003 Author Share Posted January 11, 2003 Once again an excellent explanation by Chris, much appreciated thanks Chris. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supra Pilot Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 As I correctly stated... If used in the correct situation, it will be beneficial... Hence my words, on drag days etc. never said anything about everyday use, that would be useless unless you fill your entire boot with ice cold water! If I am getting on the grid(start line) spraying ice cold water(liquid) on my IC in prep for a run, and the bloke with same spec next to me without this.......I WILL have an advantage! End of story!¬ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soonto_HAS_soop Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Just a little tit bit I've picked up from the Cavalier/Calibra Turbo guys that I know. If you have internal water injection, don't just use water, use a mix of 50/50 water and methanol. Gives it an extra kick apparently. Just don't stand too close to it with a naked flame when you are mixing it together! :flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Originally posted by Soontohavesoop Just don't stand too close to it with a naked flame when you are mixing it together! :flame Dev And make sure you have gloves on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 I thought methanol will eat into the aluminium head?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Jackett Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 ANd make sure when mixing the methonal you do it in a full white suit and in a sealed room. I have looked at this before and methonal is deadly, just the vapour can effect your eyes. If you have children don't even consider storing this stuff in your house or garage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Originally posted by Terry S I thought methanol will eat into the aluminium head?? I don't think so, not as long as it's pure methanol, but i'm open to correction. I run a 50\50 mix with de-ionised water. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Lets not get too paranoid here guys - I work with buckets of methanol every day and as long as you wear gloves and eye protection you're fine. Especially as you're only going to be using small quantities of it, and not particularly often. Don't sweat it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Jackett Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Dr Who? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Terry, Its Ethanol which you can't use. AFAIK. If someone can get a price for it per litre I'd like to know how much Methanol is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted January 13, 2003 Share Posted January 13, 2003 Originally posted by Supra Pilot As I correctly stated... If used in the correct situation, it will be beneficial... Hence my words, on drag days etc. never said anything about everyday use, that would be useless unless you fill your entire boot with ice cold water! If I am getting on the grid(start line) spraying ice cold water(liquid) on my IC in prep for a run, and the bloke with same spec next to me without this.......I WILL have an advantage! End of story!¬ Well whilst you dribble water over your IC I'll let off a CO2 Fire extinguisher at mine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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