Paul Whiffin Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Alright chaps, Went back to G-force rolling road yesterday, managed to coax another 67bhp at the flywheel out of it! Now got 587bhp & 543lbft torque, messed around with cam timing and a bit of ignition, nice. Also found some nice gains in the mid range as well. More power to come soon... Big thanks to Chris at G-force, nice geezer and most helpful. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chase Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Nice one Paul, but I take it you have more traction problems than most in this weather with that amount of power... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted January 10, 2003 Author Share Posted January 10, 2003 Yeah, just a bit, I dont even bother putting my foot down in these conditions, spins up in every gear... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Nice Paul. Are you still trying for that magic 600hp mark? C'mon lad! I know you can put down more than that showroom Porsche GT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminator Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Well done:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Paul what was the level boost used & what fuel?? Getting better mate. How much more advance did ya dial in?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted January 10, 2003 Author Share Posted January 10, 2003 Boost peaked at 1.95 bar but still dropping off to about 1.76 which would suggest the turbo can't handle it or may be need a higher pressure wastegate spring. Ran on Optimax 98, no additives. Added 3 degree of advance in certain areas, also put cam timing to zero, couldn't believe it but my pulleys had moved, I originally set them about 1 1/2 years ago approx to ex -3 and in +1, when I looked yesterday they were ex+1 and in 0! Not good, I'm going to be checking that a bit more often from now on me thinks...Annoying thing was one of the pulley bolts rounded off so I couldn't try retarding the ex cam anymore, I gained around 10bhp at the wheels from putting it back from +1 to 0, I reckon there's another easy 10-15hp from retarding it a couple of degrees so that should see over 600 flywheel me thinks. More power to come though soon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Nice one mate. I have said before, but we found the best combination of BHP or Torque was the stock settings. We could get more peak bhp or torque by altering them but the affects were negative elswhere, i.e we'd gain say 30bhp but lose 40 ft lb of torque & visa versa. How many degrees timing are you running now?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted January 10, 2003 Author Share Posted January 10, 2003 I'll show you my ignition map at Santa Pod in a couple of weeks if you like, as long as the weather is ok of course....Wouldn't mind having a butchers at yours as well, I'll show you mine if you show me yours and all that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Originally posted by Terry S Nice one mate. I have said before, but we found the best combination of BHP or Torque was the stock settings. We could get more peak bhp or torque by altering them but the affects were negative elswhere, i.e we'd gain say 30bhp but lose 40 ft lb of torque & visa versa. Agreed. Stock settings are pretty good for the majority of inlet cams for road use. OK, 272's can be played with a little but like you say you do have a bit of a trade-off at other points. We nearly always run between 2 and 3 degrees advance on the exhaust with 264's though- it gets on the boost earlier but you have to be careful and watch EGT's.... Nice figures Paul. Only thing I would mention is that 1.75 bar seems a little high though- I'm sure with some further tweaking you could make the same power with less boost. Do you have forged pistons and rods? Cheers, Nathan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Originally posted by Nathan Nice figures Paul. Only thing I would mention is that 1.75 bar seems a little high though- I'm sure with some further tweaking you could make the same power with less boost. Do you have forged pistons and rods? Cheers, Nathan. Paul is actually running 1.95 bar around 28 psi. He previously had the timing backed off so that was OK. Must be very near the limit of det now though I would have thought. Weather is probably helping though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Terry S Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Originally posted by Paul Whiffin I'll show you my ignition map at Santa Pod in a couple of weeks if you like, as long as the weather is ok of course....Wouldn't mind having a butchers at yours as well, I'll show you mine if you show me yours and all that! Deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted January 10, 2003 Author Share Posted January 10, 2003 Nope, std engine, I wont be running that boost all the time, only on the odd occation for drag racing, most of the time it will be 1.5bar max. If it does blow though its a good excuse for a fully sorted bottom end! I think its the turbo limiting the power, but then I originally bought that particular kit for good driveability and not outright power. I could get a bigger turbo and run less boost and have the same amount of power or more perhaps but then the power will come in 500rpm or so later, can't have everything I suppose. I may go down this route when I get bored with what I have though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Originally posted by Paul Whiffin Nope, std engine, I wont be running that boost all the time, only on the odd occation for drag racing, most of the time it will be 1.5bar max. Ah...thats better....you know it makes sense ;-) I must admit- I take my hat off to you for being able to hit 1.95 bar on pump fuel without EGT's going crazy from loads of ign retard. I do see your logic with regards to using an engine blow-up as an excuse for going forged though...honestly I do...;-) Cheers Nathan TDI PLC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin F Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Paul - would you care to share the make of your pulleys that have slipped. I think most of us have heard that some are worse than others. I guess you torqued them up properly when you originall fitted them, perhaps medium threadlock may be an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Originally posted by Martin F Paul - would you care to share the make of your pulleys that have slipped. I think most of us have heard that some are worse than others. I guess you torqued them up properly when you originall fitted them, perhaps medium threadlock may be an idea. IMO adjustable pulleys, unless really well made and with some positive locking device, should be considered development aids only, after a cam offset is decided a stock pulley should be returned with offset key or dowel, made to achieve the desired timing change. Probably a bit OTT for a slow revving road engine, but I wouldn't trust a vernier pulley that just relied on friction clamping the 2 halves together. Multiple hole with peg vernier ones are fine though, but never seen any *S-GTE ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 10, 2003 Share Posted January 10, 2003 Originally posted by Paul Whiffin Alright chaps, Went back to G-force rolling road yesterday, managed to coax another 67bhp at the flywheel out of it! Now got 587bhp & 543lbft torque, messed around with cam timing and a bit of ignition, nice. Also found some nice gains in the mid range as well. More power to come soon... Big thanks to Chris at G-force, nice geezer and most helpful. Paul Good figures, nice amount of torque! Still feel you are pushing your luck with that much boost on pump fuel, probably OK for short rolling road pulls, wouldn't want to do 12 laps of a circuit in the summer with that much boost and pump fuel though. Not for me to interfere, but why not try 5 gallons of race fuel, and see what she can REALLY do. Adding some advance and pulling some excess fuel really wakes a turbo engine up :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted January 11, 2003 Author Share Posted January 11, 2003 I've got HKS ones on my car, I used to use those dowel type vernier's back in my mini days, £50 for a complete adjustable timing gear kit, used to leak like a bitch though. Dont worry I'm not going to bomb round a track all day with that sort of boost, no way jose. I was going to try some race fuel at some point to see what the difference is like but then I wanted a real world power figure, can't see the point unless your going to run the stuff all the time. Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Hows that a real world figure if you can't run that much boost on the road:confused: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted January 11, 2003 Author Share Posted January 11, 2003 Erm, read it again I said track..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 Hi Paul, Very respectable figures there. I was talking to a rep from 76 at the Autosports show there and got some very interesting info on race fuel, price wasn't too bad neither - have you looked into this? Gaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted January 11, 2003 Share Posted January 11, 2003 76 recommended their RFT to me. It's £88 for 25L's and has been developed specifically for Turbo engines. It might not be the ultimate Octane - but that's not all we need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Whiffin Posted January 12, 2003 Author Share Posted January 12, 2003 I've never really looked into it no, do you know what octane that fuel is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 I asked which fuel would be best for me using on track with a non-mappable ECU. ****************************** Thank you for your mail. It is difficult to say which of our fuels that will give most power as you do not want to map the car exclusively for your engine as you then would have a problem with running it on the street (cost that is). I would always recommend to run it neat as that is how the fuel is designed. However, you would improve the optimax by mixing it 50% with either the competition 100 or the RFT (this fuel is specifically designed for turbo applications). I know that properly mapped the RFT is the more powerful but in a case where you have to rely on a previous map the difference might not be huge between these two fuels - the improvement over what you have today should be quite a lot. the comp 100 meets the British Standards for super unleaded as the oxygen content is 2.7% which is the maximum for BS 7800. RFT has got 3.6%. ********************************** Not sure of the actual Octane ratings but I can find out. I think its the chemicals themselves which make the fuel technically more powerful rather than just allowing for more boost. IYSWIM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorin Posted January 12, 2003 Share Posted January 12, 2003 From their website http://www.nutidltd.co.uk/ Order on-line! 76 Competition 100 (106RON, 96MON, 2.7% oxygen) - Unleaded A fuel designed for the performance enthusiast who wants a high-octane extremely clean burning fuel. This is the control fuel for Grand AM (Rolex Daytona 24 Hours). It conforms to the BS 7800 (Super Unleaded) and BS EN228 (Premium Unleaded). It is suitable for racing purposes and high performance street vehicles, powerboats, jetskis, motorcycles etc. In fact, engines with compression ratios as high as 14 to 1 will benefit greatly from this powerful clean burning fuel. It is oxygenated to improve engine breathing to improve power in engines with air fuel restrictors. It blends with any pump fuel (for those who wants to boost the octane) and provides great protection for knock (pinking or detonation). It contains no lead or alkohol. ------------------------------ R FT (102RON, 88MON, 3.6% oxygen) - Unleaded The RFT is specially formulated to provide maximum power for Turbo charged engines conforming to the current FIA Appendix J regulation for petrol. This fuel is developed and blended by a world leader in Formula 1 race fuel technology in conjunction with one of the leading world rally team’s engine department with the aim to develop the most powerful turbo fuel on the market. The high oxygen content of 3.6% combined with special high octane power enhancing 'turbo' chemicals results in improved responsiveness, mid-range torque and power output. Already proven a winner both in Group C turbo engines and in rally turbo engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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