JS2004 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 typing this from my phone. Just on way home, put foot down to about 70 looked in rear view and there is a ton of white smoke. Pulled over. Smokes when idle too. The red oil can light and the orange one both on. Opened engine oil fill and there is smoke in there too. Is this a blown head and is it an expensive fix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Lots of white smoke does seem to indicate a lot of coolant getting into the cylinder, that was sure the case when my head gasket went. I think you need to get the car home and not make any roadsiden judgements. HG fix could be literally the cost of gaskets & oil/coolant if you do it yourself. Not sure on how much a garge would charge, I guess it won'tbe cheap. Just keep an eye on coolant temp if you are going to baby it home or get a trailer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckler Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 orange oil can in low oil level, red oil can is oil pressure... lack of... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Is it running on 6 still? Not that it really matters as it sounds serious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 PS is the white smoke coming "out" the exhuat, it's not something leaking onto something hot is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jevansio Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 PPS is the the absolute first time anything has gone wrong with the car (ie it was running perfect) or is thi the manifestation of a long running problem that has just suddenly got worse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 That's not good, feel for you The fact that both oil lights are on (and I assume you meant while it was running) means you shouldn't even think about starting it. Best to get it recovered and take a closer look tomorrow. Did you stop and turn the engine off as soon as the oil lights appeared? Unfortunately I'd say it's worse than a blown HG if it's lost oil pressure and is enough to trip the low oil level warning. Edit, just seen it's an NA, so shouldn't be expensive to fix even if the worse has happened. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swampy442 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Wasnt there someone one here whos crank pulley failed and holed the oil pump casing/upper sump? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS2004 Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 Ok guys ive got home. RAC came out and recovered me - quite impressed with the service actually. We got it put on the back of a trailor and its now home so ill go over what happened in a bit more detail. Background for today - Changed coolant, connected heater matrix (which was changed a while back but I wanted to flush system first) Checked oil, noticed it was about 1/3 full so topped it up to full this afternoon. Was alarmed as I havnt drove it too far and it was filled approx 6 month ago. Ok so tonights events, I knew that the system still had air in (coolant) and that its self bleeding so I decided to take it out to help with that. Turned around to head back the way I was coming, empty road so thought why not, had a little play. It got to about 70, overdrive was off. Then there was a judder and a slight loss of power, and noticed the white smoke behind me (It did look cool..) So I slowed right down and pulled over as soon as it happened. Nothing like this has happened before and no leading problems so far. Incidently I have an issue with the intermittent warning lights as I suspect a faulty connection, but the warning lights were working. Keys in ignition, not turned on. Red oil and the orange engine one lit (Do these normally light when not running?) When its running the lights are not on. Turned it on, looked at the back, lots of smoke.. turned it off again. called RAC. AT this point, with key in ignition but car not turned on I had the three warning lights. Two oil ones and the orange engine light. The connector must have gone on the blink again though because now none of them are lighting up and they should be.. grr. Whilst waiting for RAC I opened the oil filler thing and there was smoking coming out of where you fill the oil. The coolant pipes are fine, and when engine turned on they do not feel pressurised. The trailer came and it was taken home and dropped off. I got in it to reverse into the parking spot, coolant indicator had gone down showing the engine wasnt as hot and there was no white smoke this time.. but I know the problem is still there. At this point I am suspecting valve seals - I did check to make sure it wasnt anything burning off - its definitely coming from the exhaust. It is white, thick smoke. If it was the head gasket wouldnt the coolant pipes start building pressure when the engine was on? Seals sounds plausible because I was alarmed at how much oil it had used since filling it up. Ill have a proper look tomorrow. Not sure what the costs are to replace the valves though.. is that worse or better than a head gasket? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS2004 Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 Is it running on 6 still? Not that it really matters as it sounds serious Doesnt feel like it is misfiring so yes I think its still running on six. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS2004 Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 PS is the white smoke coming "out" the exhuat, it's not something leaking onto something hot is it? Yup mate, exhaust for definate, and its the first time ive experienced this type of problem with the car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heckler Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 At this point I am suspecting valve seals - I did check to make sure it wasnt anything burning off - its definitely coming from the exhaust. It is white, thick smoke. If it the valve seals, the smoke would be blue... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS2004 Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 Thats not good then.. I was hoping it was the valve seals as that sounded like an easier fix. Sigh, just as I got everything working it goes and does this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homer Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 The oil lights will stay on if the engine is not running and the ignition is on II, if they came on while the engine was running it's going to be a major problem. Since you made some changes to the coolant system this is going to be a more likely cause, especially as white smoke from the exhaust is a sure sign of coolant getting into the combustion chamber, which leads back to a likely HG problem. Most likely it's overheated and blown out the HG. There's a ton of possible causes on this, but I will say that the NA is NOT a self bleeding system Not sure about the oil loss side of things, but did you really not check it for 6 months? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS2004 Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 Ok if its a blown HG what stuff do I need? Seems plausible after several searches, white smoke appears linked to coolant / water and head gaskets. I dont know if the system was bled enough, but would air in the coolant system cause the head gasket to go like that ? I filled the system up, even had it on a hill with the engine on squeezing pipes etc to get all the air out with the heater on full. The top, lower rad hoses were hot, and I had a working heater (just in time for winter...wait.. nevermind). So I had assumed all the major air locks were out. Would a small air lock be able to do this? I didnt notice it overheating either infact the needle for heat was where it normally is.. The smoke coming out of the oil filler cap is what has confused me.. but if the HG has gone then its the coolant mixing with the oil right? Anyone had the HG on an NA fixed and can give me a rough idea of what the costs should normally be? Also a list of bits I need would help as I can start to put a shopping list together. Ill have a sniff test thing done ASAP from a local garage. Gutted.. was so pleased I had finally got the theater matrix working and the LED dash sorted out.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS2004 Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 (edited) The oil lights will stay on if the engine is not running and the ignition is on II, if they came on while the engine was running it's going to be a major problem. Since you made some changes to the coolant system this is going to be a more likely cause, especially as white smoke from the exhaust is a sure sign of coolant getting into the combustion chamber, which leads back to a likely HG problem. Most likely it's overheated and blown out the HG. There's a ton of possible causes on this, but I will say that the NA is NOT a self bleeding system Not sure about the oil loss side of things, but did you really not check it for 6 months? I did check it in between, the last time it was properly full was 6 months ago, I remember checking it and it being a bit below full and put it down to normal usage probably around Christmas time as I was messing with the headlights. I don't use it very much its only this week really that ive got any proper usage out of it as its been laid up whilst I sorted the matrix and coolant out, plus the bad weather etc.. and ive been using a rental car from work for the vast majority of things. The self bleeding thing I read somewhere but come to think of it was probably for a TT. I have had it running on a hill whilst topping up and squeezing the pipes and all sorts trying to get air out. I know I put approx 2.8l of the concentrated toyota red 4life and roughly 2.6l of deionised water into the rad, and the expansion tank got about a 50/50 coolant and water in there and was just under the full line. *edit the warning lights didnt come on whilst driving it, but the connector for those lights is a bit dodgey on mine (trying to work out how to fix it). But when I was stationary, with engine ignition in position II the lights were on. Edited March 6, 2011 by JS2004 (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS2004 Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 Starting to price up with the local garages - A head gasket change on a supra should be similar to other cars right? Does anyone know roughly how much labor is involved in changing the HG on an N/A ? I will be getting hold of all the parts. One mechanic I spoke to has so far quoted me the following Labor : To be confirmed, hes checking into this Skim of head & pressure test - £90 + VAT Parts mentioned: Water pump - Cost?? Cam belt - Cost ?? Head Gasket set - Cost ?? Trying to get in touch with some of the forum traders to order the parts - Is there anything else I need? Silicon hoses perhaps to replace the current hoses in the event oil is in the system? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I'd drop another engine in it as they appear to be very cheap, if you've cooked the head it will be scrap as it will be warped and skimming them still leaves the cam journals out of line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS2004 Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 Was thinking that but theres no way of knowing what happened with the other engine - plus the costs of transport and dropping it in. Better the devil you know and all that. Is it likely the head is warped? As soon as I saw the smoke I pulled over so I have not driven it in this condition. Depending on what I am quoted to fix this though the new engine option could become more economical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Do you really know how good your engine was ? I'd price up going the new engine route as well as repairing yours. How hot did it get ? alluminium heads dont like getting hot and it doesn't take much to warp them. If you go down the head off route get a local engineering company to pop it on a milling machine and run a dti or verdict clock along it and you'll soon know. Or use a straight edge if youve got one, like an engineers steel rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS2004 Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 Fair comment Dunk, but it is the first time in two years that the engine has let me down really. It didnt over heat as I had my eye on the temp gauge. Ive been watching that thing like a hawk after changing the coolant over ealier on in the day. All pipes had been warming up nicely and evenly, heater was blowing hot air, but it is possible there is an air lock in the system despite my attempts to remove it (parking on hill, toppingup with engine on whilst on hill etc etc). Ill price up a new engine. Probably need to speak to one of the breakers like Keron I imagine? I turned it on briefly this morning. Oil level is still at the full mark, coolant expansion bottle is now at half way, it was just under the full mark yesterday after I finished topping it with coolant. Exhaust fumes is white smoke, not too thick, but doesnt have the normal exhaust-like smell, has more of a chemical smell. No warning lights are being displayed. Engine sounds fine, no rattling or misfiring. Coolant pipes appear normal. When I unscrew the oil fill cap though there is a small amount of smoke that can be seen coming out, you have to look carefully to spot it though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Think this needs further investigation before you start buying anything. An air lock in the cooling system wont affect what comes out the exhaust. Get a sniff test done which should prove either way if theres coolant in the cylinders as the coolant will be contaminated by the exhuast gases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dash Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 I don't know if this is anything to do with it, but according to alex's FAQ guide you need 9 litres to change the coolant. According to your figures you have only used 5.4 litres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3LL Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 Mate, Like i said to ya.. get it to Kilvo @ Motortech.. let him have a look at it and go from there. IF you need lots spending on it, NA lumps are cheap as chips anyways, and while your at it.. NA-T it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JS2004 Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 Cheers Dunk, Ill get a sniff test done on it - however I have just been on the phone with Keron to find out prices of an NA-NA swap, or an NA-TT swap. I have been thinking of selling my NA and getting a TT for a while now and the price isnt too bad to be fair. The only thing concerning me about the TT conversion is potential insurance increase. N/A to N/A is going to be about £600 fitted. So need to weigh up whether its worthwhile doing the tests, to tell me what the problem is, and then fixing the problem against just pulling that engine out and putting a different one in. Hull to Keron is approx 85 miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.