leelbuk Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Right, I think I already know what I have to do here but I thought it best to get a second opinion on this. I have been having issues with fueling on my new single build and it turns out that my side feed SARD 850cc injectors are sticking (1 open, 5 closed). The weird part: these were cleaned by a local company. The injectors started sticking again once fitted so then they were both cleaned and flow tested by Chris Wilson. CW reported that one of them had an iffy flow pattern which was solved after cleaning for a while however the rest were ok. He recommended changing the iffy one for new which is wise but the injectors seem to not be sticking. The problem now is that I have fitted these again, yet after running the car for 5 to 10 minutes they start to stick again and I eventually cannot start the car and they will no longer click when energised briefly with a 9v battery. It seems after warming up a little they stick is my only guess. Also, I've found that if I remove the injectors and heat them in a warm oven they will free and then continue to stay free even when cold. They will then seal perfectly and open perfectly as though brand new and will no doubt run the car again. I have no idea what is going on in the injector but I suspect as soon as I run fuel through them they will stick again! So there's the problem. Right now all I want to do is throw them in the bin and buy new and that's all I think I can do but as they are expensive (and in case I am being stupid) I thought I'd ask. 1. Should I replace the injectors? 2. If so, am I safe buying SARD's again, even 2nd hand? Was I just unlucky with this set or is this common? (only reason I ask is that I recently saw that another member has a set for sale at a decent price but I don't no what the risks are) 3. If not another set of these, what injectors would anyone recommend to fit and should I keep the stock rail or go for top feeds? My goal is 530-550BHP with the 6262 and may go to a slightly larger later however I don't think I'll want any more that approx 600BHP in future so perhaps changing the fuel rail is overkill? Sorry for the long read and I appreciate any help anyone can give, even if it's just to tell me to stop clutching straws and cough up another grand for injectors! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey. Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Right, I think I already know what I have to do here but I thought it best to get a second opinion on this. I have been having issues with fueling on my new single build and it turns out that my side feed SARD 850cc injectors are sticking (1 open, 5 closed). The weird part: these were cleaned by a local company. The injectors started sticking again once fitted so then they were both cleaned and flow tested by Chris Wilson. CW reported that one of them had an iffy flow pattern which was solved after cleaning for a while however the rest were ok. He recommended changing the iffy one for new which is wise but the injectors seem to not be sticking. The problem now is that I have fitted these again, yet after running the car for 5 to 10 minutes they start to stick again and I eventually cannot start the car and they will no longer click when energised briefly with a 9v battery. It seems after warming up a little they stick is my only guess. Also, I've found that if I remove the injectors and heat them in a warm oven they will free and then continue to stay free even when cold. They will then seal perfectly and open perfectly as though brand new and will no doubt run the car again. I have no idea what is going on in the injector but I suspect as soon as I run fuel through them they will stick again! So there's the problem. Right now all I want to do is throw them in the bin and buy new and that's all I think I can do but as they are expensive (and in case I am being stupid) I thought I'd ask. 1. Should I replace the injectors? 2. If so, am I safe buying SARD's again, even 2nd hand? Was I just unlucky with this set or is this common? (only reason I ask is that I recently saw that another member has a set for sale at a decent price but I don't no what the risks are) 3. If not another set of these, what injectors would anyone recommend to fit and should I keep the stock rail or go for top feeds? My goal is 530-550BHP with the 6262 and may go to a slightly larger later however I don't think I'll want any more that approx 600BHP in future so perhaps changing the fuel rail is overkill? Sorry for the long read and I appreciate any help anyone can give, even if it's just to tell me to stop clutching straws and cough up another grand for injectors! Intrested in this, my 750cc injectors came Back from mr Wilson today, 1 originally had poor flow and pattern but came good after cleaning... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Just seen this. I would bin them, what the injector cleaner cannot do is raise the body temps as the engine heat does. It's very rare for so many to play up at once, so if you are sure they are getting a proper signal at the required current and voltage I would say they will definitely cause issues. I have only once come across injectors that do this, and they were RC ones that, as far as I know are re drilled to give bigger flow rates. As for what to buy I will ONLY use genuine Siemens or Bosch ones, and I always get them from fiveo motorspports in the US. Bruce there is very helpful and will advise. Your problem is they are side feed and this severely limits what's available. I'd ring Bruce and see what he thinks. as you say, top feeds open up a lot more options, but the rail adds to the expense. I always advise going no bigger than needed on injector size, as huge (1000 cc and above) make it very hard to get a good idle, good economy and good emissions on many ecus, or just period... http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/ I can ultrasonically clean them, or run them for 12 hours on the machine, but I would never trust them if they are doing what you say when they get warm. Long term storage is what usually causes grief with injectors. Or water in the fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leelbuk Posted March 2, 2011 Author Share Posted March 2, 2011 Thanks Chris, I think it's safe to say that these are beyond repair and will never give me confidence to run them in the engine. It's certainly a mechanical issue with them as the pintle will not move when energised by a 9v battery like they normally would and give you the audible click. Also when I put them in the rail, pressurise it with fuel and then apply the 9v, not a drop flows. I have since tried this again after the 'oven treatment' and they will then squirt fuel when energised and completely seal the rail (and maintain residual pressure) when not. I could put the whole lot together now after the oven treatment but there's a good chance of them seizing again so I think it's time to bin them. For the sake of a hundred quid or so it might be good for me to go with a new fuel rail and some top feeds. Do these top feed rails fit where the stock rail fits or is modification required? I also assume it fits without fouling the intake plenum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Some are a pretty much direct fit with maybe some spacers. But others may not be, best to buy something someone KNOWS fits without hassle, and which take branded injectors. I love Siemens ones, I have never had any issues with them and they always flow test +- 2% max, usually better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian C Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 The HKS top feed fuel rail fits in nicely. You'll need some aeroquip style fittings to feed it and you won't be able to use the stock FPR any more, but other than that it fits in and comes with the right bolts and spaces and collars for the injectors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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