I've blown my car up

[Steve]

If people INSIST I fit these, (and they have to supply their own), I make them sign a disclaimer. Honest, I do. I just don't think they have the thermal range of an exotic metal tipped plug. I wouldn't have them in MY engine as a gift! Others will disagree....

 

 

Which plugs would you use then Chris?

[Chris Wilson]

I got NGK's race division to recommend something. I just buy them off them 100 at a time, I can't remember the code, it's an odd ball plug, but I have never, ever had either fouling or tip failure with them. Of course, you can melt almost any road car plug if the set ups wrong, or something is seriously amiss! But copper electrode plugs don't have the tolerance of a fine tipped exotic metal one, even though they may be listed as interchangable, and of simialr heat range.

[Clarkey]

Chris, the plugs I think are NGK PFR7B 4853. Because you fitted them to my car.

[Alex]

Chris,

 

NGK PFR7N (4853's) are Platinum tipped plugs.

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/cars_trucks_suvs/laserplatinum.asp

 

As I understood it, platinums are not good in turbo charged applications? Can you expand further on the recommendation from NGK? What was your specific requirement?

[JohnA]

Nothing whatever to do with this piffling little warm spell,

??!

Coolant temps are higher, fuel octane levels are likely to be lower, oil temps will be higher, intake/exhaust temps are higher. Aircons are likely to be working full blast, further preheating things. FMICs preheat things even further (compared to Toyota's SMIC setup)

My guess would be that this weather aggravates det-inducing conditions

hell, all modern cars are tested to withstand towing a caravan through Death Valley with a full compliment of hefty passengers, too.

Yes, *stock* cars

What are the plugs in it? Copper ones ?

I agree on this one.

If the manufacturer suggests an iridium plug (for example) I'd be very careful when chosing something different, especially on a modified engine. (I've seen iridium tips missing completely, too!)

[Keith C]

As I understood it, platinums are not good in turbo charged applications?

 

The standard plugs on both the MKIII and MKIV turbo were platinum.

[JustGav]

FMICs preheat things even further (compared to Toyota's SMIC setup)

 

John, what makes you say that?... are you refering to the air that goes thru to the radiator as opposed to the air temp going into the manifold?

 

Gav

[JohnA]

John, what makes you say that?... are you refering to the air that goes thru to the radiator as opposed to the air temp going into the manifold?

Gav

yes.

The stock setup is quite smart:

 

1. The SMIC is exceptionally well ducted at the front. FMICs typically aren't

 

2. The SMIC is exceptionally well located for the rear to be in a low pressure environment (pressure difference is what makes air move through the core, not vehicle speed as most people think. Just fit a cardboard behind the core and go at 200mph. The flow through the core will be feckall )

FMICs have the rear of their core in a high pressure area, almost as high as their front. Not smart.

 

3. The SMIC dumps the preheated air totally outside the engine bay, unlike the FMICs that dump it onto the aircon condenser and the water rad. That's a serious step back in my book.

 

4. The SMIC is totally shielded from the engine bay heat, so it gets no heatsoak in slow driving. FMICs are only partially shielded from that 'interheating' effect.

 

Not to mention question marks around the flow and efficiency of many aftermarket FMICs, especially some el-cheapos.

 

 

PS

I'm old-fashioned, don't fall for hype, bling and 'street cred' Gav. I appreciate and embrace a good idea when I see one. But the great majority of 'mods' I see around I regard as garbage, it's no secret, you should see the hate-mail I get on my website.

[imi]

JohnA.....good post....it makes sense, good reason why Toyota dropped it in there. Additionally, seems like the Castrol Supra has a SMIC in the left headlight (I could be wrong though)

 

Question. How come FMIC adds more power?

[JohnA]

Question. How come FMIC adds more power?

More boost adds power. FMICs give people the confidence to run more boost. Without measurements, that confidence could be misplaced sometimes though. FMICs have a lot more mass, so they act as heat-bricks, something very important when you're running the stock turbos totally out of their efficiency range (which ends kinda sharpish after 1 bar) The SMIC with the flimsy plastic tanks loses the mass battle, but not necessarily the war.

The quality of the SMIC core inside is exceptionally good, far superior to the FMICs I've seen.

 

And remember, you cannot compare and deadbeat flaky 13 year old SMIC with a brand new FMIC and say there's an improvement, any more than you can compare 60K old stock plugs with brand new crappy ones. You're not comparing like with like.

 

I'm not saying that FMICs in principle are a bad move, because they're not. In case of the Supra's SMIC a FMIC will have to go a lot further to prove it's worth, that's all.

[imi]

More boost adds power. FMICs give people the confidence to run more boost.

 

Homer - need you to confirm the accuracy of what I am about to say.

 

on the Miami-GT RR day, Homer put his car on the rollers and it did 380bhp.

 

a couple of months later, on the second Miami-GT day, his car did 412bhp.

 

Exactly the same setup, the only difference if I recall correctly was the addition of FMIC and new Spark plugs.

 

And remember, you cannot compare and deadbeat flaky 13 year old SMIC with a brand new FMIC and say there's an improvement, any more than you can compare 60K old stock plugs with brand new crappy ones. You're not comparing like with like.

 

 

Good point.

[JohnA]

..on the Miami-GT RR day, Homer put his car on the rollers and it did 380bhp.

 

a couple of months later, on the second Miami-GT day, his car did 412bhp..

32bhp compared to 380 are less than 10% variance.

Even if it was the same RR, with the same operator and the same throttle pattern used, the ambient temp/pressure could well be different and not compensated with the RR's software (or overcompensated, to make the punter happy, as the case may be). Bonnet open/closed, temps of the engine bay before the 'good' run took place, tyre slip, tyre pressures, fuel quality, ECU recently reset, (etc etc) they all make very measurable differences, a few percentage points each actually.

...dumping a corroded SMIC wouldn't hurt, either.

 

In any case, the backward steps taken during the FMIC 'upgrade' might not affect max RR readings on a short power burst, rather real-life power delivery and reliability. The overtaxing of the coolant system and raising of engine bay temps has a cumulative effect in bits getting cooked and failing later on.

[Darren]

32bhp compared to 380 are less than 10% variance.

Even if it was the same RR, with the same operator and the same throttle pattern used, the ambient temp/pressure could well be different and not compensated with the RR's software (or overcompensated, to make the punter happy, as the case may be). Bonnet open/closed, temps of the engine bay before the 'good' run took place, tyre slip, tyre pressures, fuel quality, ECU recently reset, (etc etc) they all make very measurable differences, a few percentage points each actually.

...dumping a corroded SMIC wouldn't hurt, either.

 

In any case, the backward steps taken during the FMIC 'upgrade' might not affect max RR readings on a short power burst, rather real-life power delivery and reliability. The overtaxing of the coolant system and raising of engine bay temps has a cumulative effect in bits getting cooked and failing later on.

 

There must be alot of Supras blowing up in America, Hong Kong and Japan then!!!

[JohnA]

If you say so dude...

[carl0s]

Going back to Sparkplugs ... BKR7E-VX are only £5.94 each. These are "fine wire platinum centre electrode". Is this the same as "platinum core"?

peanuts (click here)

[Homer]

Homer - need you to confirm the accuracy of what I am about to say.

 

on the Miami-GT RR day, Homer put his car on the rollers and it did 380bhp.

 

a couple of months later, on the second Miami-GT day, his car did 412bhp.

 

Imi, you're right. 1st time I had 387bhp, 2nd time 412bhp. Only change to the car was dumping a coroded standard intercooler and fitting a Greddy 3 row. The FPR was also changed from stock to aeromotive.

 

After having those bits fitted the car did feel like it had much more power at the higher rpm so I'm inclined to beleive there was an increase in HP.

 

Edited to add - boost pressure was 1.1 bar on both days

[Need4Speed]

Sounds like a 2nd turbo failure

[Syed Shah]

Sorry to bump such an old thread, but what was the problem in the end?

[Jake]

The vacuum reference pipe had come off the FPR (the stock one). Apparently this causes it to run lean.

 

Why do you ask mate? I hope you haven't had a similar problem

[JamieP]

just read 3 pages before i realised it was a year old thread:rolleyes:

[Guest gzaerojon]

just read 3 pages before i realised it was a year old thread:rolleyes:

 

 

[MrRalphMan]

Ah nuts, that's the second thread I've read today that started over a year ago.

 

What damage had been done in the end?

[GazzaGSi]

[Jake]

What damage had been done in the end?

Melted piston #2, scratched bore.

http://img324.imageshack.us/img324/5690/meltedpiston013wb.th.jpg

 

I've had the block hot-tanked, bored out to 86.5mm and fitted a set of oversized pistons and rings.

Replaced one conrod because I scratched a small end bushing while trying to remove one of the gudgeon pins. (Thanks Mig!)

New rod and main bearings. New Toyota bolts in the rods and mains. New stock head gasket and head bolts, numerous other gaskets/seal/etc

While the head was off I had all the valves reseated and replaced all the stem seal even though the engine has only done about 36,000 miles.

 

The engine is all rebuilt and ready to start up now but I'm having to wait for a couple of bits I leant out to be returned.

[Bobbeh]

Glad to hear it m8, hope you're back on the road asap