Anyone going to watch Top Gear after last weeks casual racism?

[tbourner]

There are much worse things in the world what you softies probably never worry about, like entire nations starving while we are well fed, yet you are outraged that jc made a stereotypical joke about some mexicans.

 

"RedM implies he doesn't care about people starving in Africa in racism shocker!"

[Tannhauser]

I am genuinely amazed at how easily offended some people get about things like this. What rainbow filled dream world have you people been living in? Jesus Christ, it was a joke. No-one was hurt. Lighten up ffs. Life is hard enough without being told what you can and cannot say at all times. There are much worse things in the world what you softies probably never worry about, like entire nations starving while we are well fed, yet you are outraged that jc made a stereotypical joke about some mexicans.

 

Interesting post and as I think I would probably be accused as one of 'you people', I'll reply.

 

Firstly, like most on here, you're throwing around the word 'outraged'. Those people who think Top Gear are in the wrong haven't done so. The 'outrage' all seems to been on the part of those defending it. They seem very angry about any sort of criticism of their ickle heroes.

 

Likewise, the accusation that I'm personally offended by it is based on what? There's a difference between recognising that content is unpleasant, perhaps avoiding it as a result, and regarding it as a personal affront. The idea that I'm living in a dream world is based on what? That I think it's wrong to use 1930s stereotypes in 2011?

 

Secondly, I agree with you that in the scheme of things, their comments are trivial compared to - say - entire nations starving. As it happens, I am aware of more global problems such as distribution of wealth. Rather than worrying about it, however, I do what I can. Your accusation would be better levelled at the non-softies. There's at least one of them who would be happy to see the world's poor starve to death; a real Social Darwinist.

 

The 'what you can and can't say' has been dealt with elsewhere on the thread. They did say it, they weren't banned from saying it, there was no suggestion of banning anything. The presenters made a joke that was calculated to get the troglodytes rubbing themselves off in delight, and some people objected to it.

 

Thanks for pointing out that it was a joke. The whole thread, since the very start, has been about what's appropriate for broadcast. As has been pointed out many, many, many times, there are probably plenty of things you wouldn't think were acceptable to be broadcast on a top-flight BBC prime-time show. How about if the joke had been about buggering a child? Still OK? No one got hurt, right? The question is where that boundary lies.

 

I don't watch TG anyway, but I'm surprised at how many people think they shouldn't get called on their comments.

[Thorin]

The 'outrage' all seems to been on the part of those defending it. They seem very angry about any sort of criticism of their ickle heroes.

 

I'm outraged at the thought you might think I'm defending Top Gear!!1!

[Tannhauser]

I'm outraged at the thought you might think I'm defending Top Gear!!1!

 

When you say "1!", what do you mean by that?

 

I'm not outraged, but I am upset that you haven't made any claims regarding your putative godhood lately.

[Thorin]

When you say "1!", what do you mean by that?

 

I'm not outraged, but I am upset that you haven't made any claims regarding your putative godhood lately.

 

Typo.

 

It gets tiresome, I try to live the quiet life these days.

[davej705]

Interesting post and as I think I would probably be accused as one of 'you people', I'll reply.

 

Firstly, like most on here, you're throwing around the word 'outraged'. Those people who think Top Gear are in the wrong haven't done so. The 'outrage' all seems to been on the part of those defending it. They seem very angry about any sort of criticism of their ickle heroes.

 

Likewise, the accusation that I'm personally offended by it is based on what? There's a difference between recognising that content is unpleasant, perhaps avoiding it as a result, and regarding it as a personal affront. The idea that I'm living in a dream world is based on what? That I think it's wrong to use 1930s stereotypes in 2011?

 

Secondly, I agree with you that in the scheme of things, their comments are trivial compared to - say - entire nations starving. As it happens, I am aware of more global problems such as distribution of wealth. Rather than worrying about it, however, I do what I can. Your accusation would be better levelled at the non-softies. There's at least one of them who would be happy to see the world's poor starve to death; a real Social Darwinist.

 

The 'what you can and can't say' has been dealt with elsewhere on the thread. They did say it, they weren't banned from saying it, there was no suggestion of banning anything. The presenters made a joke that was calculated to get the troglodytes rubbing themselves off in delight, and some people objected to it.

 

Thanks for pointing out that it was a joke. The whole thread, since the very start, has been about what's appropriate for broadcast. As has been pointed out many, many, many times, there are probably plenty of things you wouldn't think were acceptable to be broadcast on a top-flight BBC prime-time show. How about if the joke had been about buggering a child? Still OK? No one got hurt, right? The question is where that boundary lies.

 

I don't watch TG anyway, but I'm surprised at how many people think they shouldn't get called on their comments.

 

 

Some valid points Mr.T although it wasn't directed at one person directly!

 

If you dont even watch the show what is the problem? Are stereotypes really that bad? I mean how many more offensive,violent scenes are broadcast than a Mexican stereotype joke (which wasn't funny)

 

It may be that I don't offend easily. I mean when we get the dodgy teeth,cup o tea drinking,cucumber sandwich stereotype aimed at us should we be offended or just realise that it's a joke and they don't really mean it and if they do believe it they are stupid,uneducated fools

[tbourner]

There's at least one of them who would be happy to see the world's poor starve to death; a real Social Darwinist.

 

Well I never said that exactly.

[Paul]

I'm gutted I didn't get quoted

[Lbm]

i'm gutted i didn't get quoted

 

hth

[RedM]

I'm gutted I didn't get quoted

 

You'd have to say something worth quoting first. Keep trying though. You'll get there eventually.

 

With regard to Davej705 and his comments there's not a lot that I could write that hasn't already been covered by Tannhauser. I could maybe write about how the majority of people who think racism is harmless banter are white and will never be in a position to experience it for themselves. I could maybe write about how I do get bothered to the point of activism by a lot of what goes on the world. I could write that I feel passionately enough animal rights/welfare, the environment and other issues to freely give my time to do 'my little bit' for the cause(s). I could write about how, up until December, I was doing volunteer work with people that most of you would disparagingly call immigrants. Basically helping them learn about life in a new country from how and where to cross a road safely to opening bank accounts and enrolling themselves in education or finding a permanent home. I could write about how that got pushed aside thanks to Tory cuts. I could write about how angry that made me and how sad I felt for them that one poky office and a few paid staff were deemed too expensive for them.

 

I won't though because IanC will just take the p*ss. What I will put is that racism is fundamentally wrong. You can't be just a little bit racist. You either are or you aren't (except where the Welsh are concerned. Top Gear Clause). I'd love to hear someone explain how racism can ever be okay and have it make sense. I don't think it'll ever happen though.

[j_jza80]

With regard to Davej705 and his comments there's not a lot that I could write that hasn't already been covered by Tannhauser. I could maybe write about how the majority of people who think racism is harmless banter are white and will never be in a position to experience it for themselves.

Doesn't that make you racist? Plenty of ethnic groups poke fun at us 'honkys'

 

I could maybe write about how I do get bothered to the point of activism by a lot of what goes on the world. I could write that I feel passionately enough animal rights/welfare, the environment and other issues to freely give my time to do 'my little bit' for the cause(s). I could write about how, up until December, I was doing volunteer work with people that most of you would disparagingly call immigrants. Basically helping them learn about life in a new country from how and where to cross a road safely to opening bank accounts and enrolling themselves in education or finding a permanent home.

 

I could write about how that got pushed aside thanks to Tory cuts, due to the previous Labour government ruining our economy, which was prosperous when they came to power.. I could write about how angry that made me and how sad I felt for them that one poky office and a few paid staff were deemed too expensive for them.

 

What I will put is that racism is fundamentally wrong. You can't be just a little bit racist. You either are or you aren't (except where the Welsh are concerned. Top Gear Clause). I'd love to hear someone explain how racism can ever be okay and have it make sense. I don't think it'll ever happen though.

 

I used to run a plumbers merchants, with customers of all races, religions and creeds. There was lots of light hearted, racial banter between everyone, and everyone knew that there was no offence intended/taken. I don't agree with racism at someone elses expense, but I think you'll find alot of people will take it exactly as it was intended, as some light hearted fun

[davej705]

With regard to Davej705 and his comments there's not a lot that I could write that hasn't already been covered by Tannhauser. I could maybe write about how the majority of people who think racism is harmless banter are white and will never be in a position to experience it for themselves. I could maybe write about how I do get bothered to the point of activism by a lot of what goes on the world. I could write that I feel passionately enough animal rights/welfare, the environment and other issues to freely give my time to do 'my little bit' for the cause(s). I could write about how, up until December, I was doing volunteer work with people that most of you would disparagingly call immigrants. Basically helping them learn about life in a new country from how and where to cross a road safely to opening bank accounts and enrolling themselves in education or finding a permanent home. I could write about how that got pushed aside thanks to Tory cuts. I could write about how angry that made me and how sad I felt for them that one poky office and a few paid staff were deemed too expensive for them.

 

I'd love to hear someone explain how racism can ever be okay and have it make sense. I don't think it'll ever happen though.

 

Shame about the Tory cuts and it seems like your a basically good human being and your charity work should be applauded. However, you are missing the point in that casual joking with stereotypes is not malicious. Calling some one a n****r would be racism. Big difference. Would you not agree it's how it is used? I understand your point about where to draw the line but it works both ways.

 

FYI my dad is Jordanian and a muslim making me a half cast

[Tannhauser]

Some valid points Mr.T although it wasn't directed at one person directly!

 

If you dont even watch the show what is the problem? Are stereotypes really that bad? I mean how many more offensive,violent scenes are broadcast than a Mexican stereotype joke (which wasn't funny)

 

It may be that I don't offend easily. I mean when we get the dodgy teeth,cup o tea drinking,cucumber sandwich stereotype aimed at us should we be offended or just realise that it's a joke and they don't really mean it and if they do believe it they are stupid,uneducated fools

 

The problem is that if something is wrong, it's wrong, it doesn't matter if it affects me personally or not. If we only ever react to things right in front of our own noses, what sort of world is that?

 

Yes, I think there are many things that are worse on TV. I think how harmful stereotypes are depend on the particular history of the groups involved. So 'stupid American' is nowhere near as damaging as 'lazy African' (which was the stereotype years ago) or 'lazy Mexican', because...well, I don't really need to spell it out, it ought to be obvious.

 

There's a spectrum between 'screechingly offended by everything' and 'utterly complacent and desensitised to human suffering'. We're all on that spectrum somewhere. I think that huge numbers of people in the UK would see the TG remarks as unacceptable, and wouldn't see protesting about them as oversensitive.

 

For me, it comes down to the difference between the public arena and private one. As I said before, personally I think there's a massive difference between what one might say with mates or colleagues and what is broadcast internationally.

[davej705]

Tbh honest I would say the majority of people I know wouldnt have been offended at all by this. However, alot of people I know were offended by the Ross/brand/sachs incident. I understand what you are saying about the scale though.I'm afraid with the emergence of the internet alot of people (young especially) have been desensitised to the darker side of life.

 

I agree certain things would be said in your home that couldn't be broadcast internationally.but I still don't think the Mexican 'joke' was over the top

 

Am I not allowed to call the French cheese eating surrender monkeys anymore then?

 

The problem is that if something is wrong, it's wrong, it doesn't matter if it affects me personally or not. If we only ever react to things right in front of our own noses, what sort of world is that?

 

Yes, I think there are many things that are worse on TV. I think how harmful stereotypes are depend on the particular history of the groups involved. So 'stupid American' is nowhere near as damaging as 'lazy African' (which was the stereotype years ago) or 'lazy Mexican', because...well, I don't really need to spell it out, it ought to be obvious.

 

There's a spectrum between 'screechingly offended by everything' and 'utterly complacent and desensitised to human suffering'. We're all on that spectrum somewhere. I think that huge numbers of people in the UK would see the TG remarks as unacceptable, and wouldn't see protesting about them as oversensitive.

 

For me, it comes down to the difference between the public arena and private one. As I said before, personally I think there's a massive difference between what one might say with mates or colleagues and what is broadcast internationally.

[kill1308]

Firstly, like most on here, you're throwing around the word 'outraged'. Those people who think Top Gear are in the wrong haven't done so. The 'outrage' all seems to been on the part of those defending it. They seem very angry about any sort of criticism of their ickle heroes.

 

I haven't used the word outraged (I don't think ) , I'm also not defending Top Gear specifically... You'll also notice that I have mentioned that I understand that everyone has differing views on what racism is.

 

Anyway, I'm not even sure I'm defending anything in this thread really, it's a bit pointless. The people who get offended at the slightest thing will continue to do so and the people who don't get offended easily won't understand why, it's a bit of a stalemate really.

 

Only reason I chimed in as that I'm just fed up to the back teeth of (what I feel) is the silly, politically correct state that this country seems to be in. Normally I wouldn't post in threads like this, but everywhere you look there are people discussing how they are offended by 'X' and and want 'Y' taken off the television, or we can't do such and such because it might affect people from other cultures. It winds me up a treat how people can be so worried and kick up such a fuss about things like this when there are much more pressing problems in the world that they could be directing their ample spare time towards. To me it just seems silly, however, everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I respect people for speaking up when they believe that something is incorrect or it upsets them.

 

The sensitive people who do speak up though must understand that the people on the other side of the coin (ie those with differing views on the subject they are offended by) will also speak up in the same manner.

[Lbm]

Am I not allowed to call the French cheese eating surrender monkeys anymore then?

 

Being from France (originally) myself, I suppose I can tolerate you & little joke my Roastbeef chum.

[davej705]

Being from France (originally) myself, I suppose I can tolerate you & little joke my Roastbeef chum.

 

:)

[Lbm]

:)

 

Pardon, but I don't like ze dooble smilee. Iz...how you say? Too...too much like ze English homosexual advance, non?

[Scott]

Being from France (originally) myself, I suppose I can tolerate you & little joke my Roastbeef chum.

 

French parents or just born there?

 

It's just that you have a sense of humour...... or are you a plagiarist?

[Swampy442]

I think that huge numbers of people in the UK would see the TG remarks as unacceptable, and wouldn't see protesting about them as oversensitive.

 

Why then, with millions of Top Gear viewers in the UK, did these quotes get literally 10s of complaints? The only reaso this particular story has legs is because the Mexican Government took offence

[Lbm]

French parents or just born there?

 

It's just that you have a sense of humour...... or are you a plagiarist?

 

Thanks. My mum was French and my dad half French, half Mexican.

 

And yes, I am a guitarist.

[Max Headroom]

In answer to the question, yes I am and I will continue to do so

[Scott]

Thanks. My mum was French and my dad half French, half Mexican.

 

And yes, I am a guitarist.

 

Haw haw haw *In my best Pepe Le Pew Accent*

 

Uzae_SqbmDE

 

Speaking of Pepe, do you think those cartoons would be considered discriminatory to the French?

[Tannhauser]

Only reason I chimed in as that I'm just fed up to the back teeth of (what I feel) is the silly, politically correct state that this country seems to be in. Normally I wouldn't post in threads like this, but everywhere you look there are people discussing how they are offended by 'X' and and want 'Y' taken off the television, or we can't do such and such because it might affect people from other cultures. It winds me up a treat how people can be so worried and kick up such a fuss about things like this when there are much more pressing problems in the world that they could be directing their ample spare time towards.

 

I think for every genuinely ridiculous PC-gone-mad incident - and there are some - there are ten that are misrepresented by mischief-makers. The Mail for example, seem to have a team of hacks that do nothing but do this. The stories about 'banning Christmas' or 'Baa baa rainbow sheep' or whatever push people's buttons so much that very few actually check out the truth behind the claims. Often, they are little more than urban myths. As I say, I'm not denying that it ever happens, but there's a lot of straw men.

[Paul]

You'd have to say something worth quoting first. Keep trying though.

 

But you talk sh*t and always get quoted ?