Scooter Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 It's always increasing effort/cost to get more and more minimal gains when you get to the top end tuning capabilities of any car though isn't it? Calder, Envy and Leon green showed how the singles with drag specific setups were the fastest, the road car singles often struggle to lay down the power and the one specifically drag setup bpu auto was so well balanced between power and traction that it 'beats' a lot of them..... Singles without good tyres are handicapped IMO and if you aren't budgetting for or thinking of using R888's or similar on a single then I think bar a pull from +80mph if won't by any quicker than a BPU car.......certainly will be more of a handful. How does that advert go...."power is nothing without control" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colsoop Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 As others have said traction, driver skill, car setup all play their part in the times that are posted. I think that 1/4 mile is a bit of a crude test really as the earlier factors are more important over such a short distance. I see 1/4 mile as a bit of fun / bragging rights(assuming you get a good time) Out on the road we are more likely to be rolling along at 30 - 50 mph where a well set up single would come in to its own. A better test would be over a distance of say 1km, the BPU supra wouldn't even figure in the times against a well set up single over that distance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 (edited) As others have said traction, driver skill, car setup all play their part in the times that are posted. I think that 1/4 mile is a bit of a crude test really as the earlier factors are more important over such a short distance. I see 1/4 mile as a bit of fun / bragging rights(assuming you get a good time) Out on the road we are more likely to be rolling along at 30 - 50 mph where a well set up single would come in to its own. A better test would be over a distance of say 1km, the BPU supra wouldn't even figure in the times against a well set up single over that distance. That's another conundrum. Mile events are reputed to 'kill' engines that have big singles. That must only be around 30 seconds @ WOT. Edited February 5, 2011 by David P (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 That's another conundrum. Mile events are reputed to 'kill' engines that have big singles. That must only be around 30 seconds @ WOT. Only the badly set up ones, or that have a pre existing problem;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustGav Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 That's another conundrum. Mile events are reputed to 'kill' engines that have big singles. That must only be around 30 seconds @ WOT. Hmmmm, lets think about the science behind that.... You have an item that is WAY past it's design specification being heavily loaded for long duration, of course if there is a weak point it is going to go.... but the same could be said for anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdistc Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Interesting thread. If I were a pedantic person, I would point out (considering we're talking about drag racing) that any singled Supra will be faster than an NA or BPU Supra - but it might not be *quicker*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I think a measure is how a car performs with it's driver. A quick BPU driver will be a quick single/big twin driver. For example. I can clock mid 13's in my BPU. With the twins, I'd expect to get in the 12's. A good drag racer might get that time in BPU, but that's a driver difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Only the badly set up ones, or that have a pre existing problem;) I guess this mile stuff is pointed toward myself, one of the few that has the balls to do these events..... Id not call my car badly setup and it had no pre existing problems i know off, still killed two engines at two events. Blame could be pointed but when you are running 3 times the power of a stock tt things can break or not go as planned, my last one melted a piston at 191mph (0.71 of a mile) i have never held my foot flat to the floor for so long other than at thunder road, i guess its hard to map a car to take into account of a run that hard, on a dyno its a short blast in one gear, who knows, maybe something else caused the piston to melt. Either way its a risk i dont mind taking, i learn from these things and come back stronger, its all for the love of Supras and having fun in my car, i have enjoyed every second of it and will continue to push it as hard as i can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodge Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Aren't most singles either in a garage with issues or parked up with the bonnet open? Just sayin'.... Depends who puts it together and the quality of parts used. If the parts used arnt spec'd for what your going to use them for, or sone backstreet mug bolts it together without a clue on what the car is going to be used for then of course it's going to pop at some time or other. Simples.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 Interesting thread. If I were a pedantic person, I would point out (considering we're talking about drag racing) that any singled Supra will be faster than an NA or BPU Supra - but it might not be *quicker*. Good point, that is the 'equasion' of my curiosity. At some point 'faster' fails to become 'quicker'. This 'point' will be different on road, strip or track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlliRR Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 FAR too many variables to consider rather than a sweeping statement of "spend thousands on a big single to become slower than a TT"..... & to JamieP, fair play to you mate for kicking your cars arse as often as you can, if I could I would! its a toy after all.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 I guess this mile stuff is pointed toward myself, one of the few that has the balls to do these events..... Id not call my car badly setup and it had no pre existing problems i know off, still killed two engines at two events. Blame could be pointed but when you are running 3 times the power of a stock tt things can break or not go as planned, my last one melted a piston at 191mph (0.71 of a mile) i have never held my foot flat to the floor for so long other than at thunder road, i guess its hard to map a car to take into account of a run that hard, on a dyno its a short blast in one gear, who knows, maybe something else caused the piston to melt. Either way its a risk i dont mind taking, i learn from these things and come back stronger, its all for the love of Supras and having fun in my car, i have enjoyed every second of it and will continue to push it as hard as i can. Nothing is 'pointed' at anyone, just chat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Nothing is 'pointed' at anyone, just chat. My bad, must be somebody else you was talking about... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Mitchell Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I guess this mile stuff is pointed toward myself, one of the few that has the balls to do these events..... Id not call my car badly setup and it had no pre existing problems i know off, still killed two engines at two events. Blame could be pointed but when you are running 3 times the power of a stock tt things can break or not go as planned, my last one melted a piston at 191mph (0.71 of a mile) i have never held my foot flat to the floor for so long other than at thunder road, i guess its hard to map a car to take into account of a run that hard, on a dyno its a short blast in one gear, who knows, maybe something else caused the piston to melt. Either way its a risk i dont mind taking, i learn from these things and come back stronger, its all for the love of Supras and having fun in my car, i have enjoyed every second of it and will continue to push it as hard as i can. KKAAAAA BOOM!!! cant argue with that. the love for supra's is what its about i wake up and thats the first thing i think about and the same when i go to bed.pushing a car to its limits time after time is what its about fair play i think. lately this forum is becoming weird with these sorts of threads it just makes members blood boil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 KKAAAAA BOOM!!! cant argue with that. the love for supra's is what its about i wake up and thats the first thing i think about and the same when i go to bed.pushing a car to its limits time after time is what its about fair play i think. lately this forum is becoming weird with these sorts of threads it just makes members blood boil Why would this chat make members blood boil? I am midway through a supercharger conversion on my daily drive, and have curiosity for a 'baby bears' bed' power figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I guess this mile stuff is pointed toward myself, one of the few that has the balls to do these events..... Id not call my car badly setup and it had no pre existing problems i know off, still killed two engines at two events. Blame could be pointed but when you are running 3 times the power of a stock tt things can break or not go as planned, my last one melted a piston at 191mph (0.71 of a mile) i have never held my foot flat to the floor for so long other than at thunder road, i guess its hard to map a car to take into account of a run that hard, on a dyno its a short blast in one gear, who knows, maybe something else caused the piston to melt. Either way its a risk i dont mind taking, i learn from these things and come back stronger, its all for the love of Supras and having fun in my car, i have enjoyed every second of it and will continue to push it as hard as i can. This worries me. A mapping session on a dyno should be done holding every load point long enough for engine temps and egts to stabilise. These automated run throughs in one gear, from 2000 rpm to red line, over in about 5 seconds are a total waste of time. I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS insist that my engine is allowed to settle at all the various load points. It's hard on the engine, but means that you leave the dyno knowing that the engine isn't just mapped for a 1/4 mile blast, but will also survive an uphill pull on full boost for some time without the rising temps needing more fuel or less timing as things get hot and bothered. How many engines survive a few Pod runs, but blow up when someone decides to wind it up over a couple of miles on the motorway, on the adrenaline fuelled way home? Lots, actually All IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Mitchell Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 well it shouldnt matter whats better than what, granted a tt bpu might stay with a single on roads/drag ect but who care's lol. not having a go at anyone but i just cant understand what its all about. lol nearly choked on a bourbon writing this, so im out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imi Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 This worries me. A mapping session on a dyno should be done holding every load point long enough for engine temps and egts to stabilise. These automated run throughs in one gear, from 2000 rpm to red line, over in about 5 seconds are a total waste of time. I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS insist that my engine is allowed to settle at all the various load points. It's hard on the engine, but means that you leave the dyno knowing that the engine isn't just mapped for a 1/4 mile blast, but will also survive an uphill pull on full boost for some time without the rising temps needing more fuel or less timing as things get hot and bothered. How many engines survive a few Pod runs, but blow up when someone decides to wind it up over a couple of miles on the motorway, on the adrenaline fuelled way home? Lots, actually All IMHO. Never thought of it like that - makes sense though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 This worries me. A mapping session on a dyno should be done holding every load point long enough for engine temps and egts to stabilise. These automated run throughs in one gear, from 2000 rpm to red line, over in about 5 seconds are a total waste of time. I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS insist that my engine is allowed to settle at all the various load points. It's hard on the engine, but means that you leave the dyno knowing that the engine isn't just mapped for a 1/4 mile blast, but will also survive an uphill pull on full boost for some time without the rising temps needing more fuel or less timing as things get hot and bothered. How many engines survive a few Pod runs, but blow up when someone decides to wind it up over a couple of miles on the motorway, on the adrenaline fuelled way home? Lots, actually All IMHO. I agree to an extent, i now think mapping on a rolling road is a waste of time on anything with serious power, try doing what you talk of on a rolling road and the tyres will melt in about 10 seconds with my power, (i know you are now going to say get it on an engine dyno but i really cant be arsed with that agro) TDI's hub dyno for me from now on, the runs can go on for as short or as long as i want and traction is not an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David P Posted February 5, 2011 Author Share Posted February 5, 2011 well it shouldnt matter whats better than what, granted a tt bpu might stay with a single on roads/drag ect but who care's lol. not having a go at anyone but i just cant understand what its all about. lol nearly choked on a bourbon writing this, so im out That's dissapointing, I was hoping you would offer to come and polish my charge cooler. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 I guess this mile stuff is pointed toward myself, one of the few that has the balls to do these events..... Id not call my car badly setup and it had no pre existing problems i know off, still killed two engines at two events. Blame could be pointed but when you are running 3 times the power of a stock tt things can break or not go as planned, my last one melted a piston at 191mph (0.71 of a mile) i have never held my foot flat to the floor for so long other than at thunder road, i guess its hard to map a car to take into account of a run that hard, on a dyno its a short blast in one gear, who knows, maybe something else caused the piston to melt. Either way its a risk i dont mind taking, i learn from these things and come back stronger, its all for the love of Supras and having fun in my car, i have enjoyed every second of it and will continue to push it as hard as i can. Careful ego's showing Jamie:p ,Actually my comment had nothing to do with your car, i was mealy pointing out that because the mile run is particular demanding on most cars, if you're really going for it, and especially with a car thats setup for big power, But unless it a fully bulletproof setup, thats tailored for that purpose, there is always going to be more of a risk, as most of the time you're at full throttle, and it only takes a non perfected map, where the timing is not optimized for prolonged full throttle, weak AFRs and/or get high EGTs, bit of det and Out of interest did anyone who has blown a motor take data-logs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Happy to show my ego. Anyhow, back on topic, anyone wants to show me how much faster there TT is than my "Spend thousands on a big single to become slower than a TT. " come see me at suprapod and we will have a little wager;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 This worries me. A mapping session on a dyno should be done holding every load point long enough for engine temps and egts to stabilise. These automated run throughs in one gear, from 2000 rpm to red line, over in about 5 seconds are a total waste of time. I ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS insist that my engine is allowed to settle at all the various load points. It's hard on the engine, but means that you leave the dyno knowing that the engine isn't just mapped for a 1/4 mile blast, but will also survive an uphill pull on full boost for some time without the rising temps needing more fuel or less timing as things get hot and bothered. How many engines survive a few Pod runs, but blow up when someone decides to wind it up over a couple of miles on the motorway, on the adrenaline fuelled way home? Lots, actually All IMHO. Doh! should have read your post first Chris, as its a far more eloquently put version of what i was getting at LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob_Mitchell Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 That's dissapointing, I was hoping you would offer to come and polish my charge cooler. see now we are talking, bling is the way forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazil Posted February 5, 2011 Share Posted February 5, 2011 Happy to show my ego. Anyhow, back on topic, anyone wants to show me how much faster there TT is than my "Spend thousands on a big single to become slower than a TT. " come see me at suprapod and we will have a little wager;) I will be happy to take you on, get ready to have your ass handed to you...! 1) Brazil/Jamie P 2) Nos/Jamie P LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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