Map ECU System

[barneybrendan]

I understand about the budget dude but we cannot stress enough the difference decent mangement makes to the way the car drives etc, plus something like the syvecs can do traction as well, think of the complexity of your car and you want to fit a very cheap/basic ecu to it, would you go buy a new 3D tv and blueray system and connect it to some really cheap speakers expecting it to sound the daddy, why dont you run lower boost and stock injectors till you can afford a decent ecu even if you go secondhand, there are a couple of AEM's for sale or are you auto????

As said from now on we will not supply etc any piggybacks, the customer is welcome to order themselves and have them sent but will not garuntee you will be 100% happy with the finished article, with a standalone ie syvecs or F-con he will keep mapping for no extra till a customer is satisfied but with the cheaper ECU's it is sometimes like banging your head on a wall and it is costing us far too much time to sort these things and make run as toyota intended.

 

take notice as i said i had the map ecu 2 and it has cost me a bloody fortune i could of easily had a standalone fitted and mapped and had change left over.Im only a supercharged na the other thing with the map is it wont control injectors either.Im like you in that my budget will now not let me get a standalone due to how much has already been spent.To sum the thing up i had the mapecu supplied and fitted and suposidly mapped for around £1200.Then i took it to AFR another £800 lost in the end i thought bollucks to the piece of crap and sold it on ebay for next to nothing.I now only have a greddy emanage ultimate as it was donated as i would never of been able to get another ecu and travel to get it mapped.

So please take this on board as i wouldnt like to see another member go through what i have.

[hp006]

I just have a map ecu. I did not see any benefit getting the map ecu 2. I have never had a problem and I'm sure there are better ecu u cud get. I'm happy with the £80 I got mine for.

[dude]

take notice as i said i had the map ecu 2 and it has cost me a bloody fortune i could of easily had a standalone fitted and mapped and had change left over.Im only a supercharged na the other thing with the map is it wont control injectors either.Im like you in that my budget will now not let me get a standalone due to how much has already been spent.To sum the thing up i had the mapecu supplied and fitted and suposidly mapped for around £1200.Then i took it to AFR another £800 lost in the end i thought bollucks to the piece of crap and sold it on ebay for next to nothing.I now only have a greddy emanage ultimate as it was donated as i would never of been able to get another ecu and travel to get it mapped.

So please take this on board as i wouldnt like to see another member go through what i have.

 

And to reiterate my point, we are having the blown beastie back to try and remap the E manage, Brendan spent so much with us on a heap of junk ECU we feel duty bound to help get his car running and mapped, the £800 by no means covered the hours wasted trying to get the Map working, I doubt Matt will ever entertain mapping another one as we are now sorting Brendans car virtually Gratis as a matter of pride to AFR and so we can see if superchargers will work on an NA. I ran 10's on my old Supra back in the day on a SAFC !!!!!!!!!!! Doesn't mean I would try it again though. Times have moved on and the Syvecs etc can be made to drive like factory, if you think about it a Syvecs is prob cheaper than an AEM FIC, RLTC, decent Boost controller and if you want NOS as well there is no comparrison, if you plan your build you can do it right for little more money.

[gurnam]

Syvecs costs £1,558.80 lol. For what I want out of the car (just a remap on the hybrid twins and will never go single turbo), it's a massive load of money for something that an AEM FIC or EMU can handle easily. I already have RLTC & a decent EBC in my possession. Not interested in NOS.

 

On top of the £1,558.80, I'd need to fork out an extra £100 for getting it fitted, then another £400 to map it at which point I'll get told I need bigger injectors to get the most out of the hybrids so another £600 on them. In total £2658.80 excluding injector fitting lol.

 

I'm now considering the EMU but not sure who sells it as Whifbitz made it clear they aren't available any more. The other tuners off here I emailed, also didn't do them so I'm officially stuck at this stage unless anyone knows where I can get the EMU from.

 

My cars a manual dude.

Edited January 27, 2011 by gurnam (see edit history)

[gurnam]

take notice as i said i had the map ecu 2 and it has cost me a bloody fortune i could of easily had a standalone fitted and mapped and had change left over.Im only a supercharged na the other thing with the map is it wont control injectors either.Im like you in that my budget will now not let me get a standalone due to how much has already been spent.To sum the thing up i had the mapecu supplied and fitted and suposidly mapped for around £1200.Then i took it to AFR another £800 lost in the end i thought bollucks to the piece of crap and sold it on ebay for next to nothing.I now only have a greddy emanage ultimate as it was donated as i would never of been able to get another ecu and travel to get it mapped.

So please take this on board as i wouldnt like to see another member go through what i have.

 

Do you care to elaborate on what exactly happened?

[dude]

Syvecs costs £1,558.80 lol. For what I want out of the car (just a remap on the hybrid twins and will never go single turbo), it's a massive load of money for something that an AEM FIC or EMU can handle easily. I already have RLTC & a decent EBC in my possession. Not interested in NOS.

 

On top of the £1,558.80, I'd need to fork out an extra £100 for getting it fitted, then another £400 to map it at which point I'll get told I need bigger injectors to get the most out of the hybrids so another £600 on them. In total £2658.80 excluding injector fitting lol.

 

I'm now considering the EMU but not sure who sells it as Whifbitz made it clear they aren't available any more. The other tuners off here I emailed, also didn't do them so I'm officially stuck at this stage unless anyone knows where I can get the EMU from.

 

My cars a manual dude.

 

If you dont have bigger injectors why are you bothering touching the ecu, I have a 6 spd aftermarket ecu, veilside I think that you can buy, prob same cost to map a syvecs as a map ecu (remember a while ago £1000 mapping bills were the norm), sell the RLTC and EBC, there was a syvecs for sale on here for about £1200 not long ago but I really don't see why you want a piggy back etc, have you run it with the ecu you have.

[Ian C]

we hoped the AEM FIC would be a step up from an E manage but it is just not what we were hoping.

 

Oh that's a shame, I know you had high hopes for that

[dude]

If you insist on going EMU which by the way will be a lot more than £100 to fit, its the same as fitting a FIC which you have already posted as being £400 or buy a fields harness and its around £100-150 on top of the harness. Make sure you get an older one as almost every new e manage ive seen has had a lot of issues, I believe Ryan could elaborate, it seems the new ones are made in a diff place and are nowhere near as reliable as the older ones. Mapping is pretty much the same money. I paid JPS years ago about £400 to set up my SAFC !!!!!!!!!

[dude]

Oh that's a shame, I know you had high hopes for that

 

So did we Ian, Matt is quite disallusioned with it and investigating an alternative 'budget' ecu if it can be made to work.

[Ian C]

And to reiterate my point, we are having the blown beastie back to try and remap the E manage, Brendan spent so much with us on a heap of junk ECU we feel duty bound to help get his car running and mapped, the £800 by no means covered the hours wasted trying to get the Map working, I doubt Matt will ever entertain mapping another one as we are now sorting Brendans car virtually Gratis as a matter of pride to AFR and so we can see if superchargers will work on an NA. I ran 10's on my old Supra back in the day on a SAFC !!!!!!!!!!! Doesn't mean I would try it again though. Times have moved on and the Syvecs etc can be made to drive like factory, if you think about it a Syvecs is prob cheaper than an AEM FIC, RLTC, decent Boost controller and if you want NOS as well there is no comparrison, if you plan your build you can do it right for little more money.

 

I still firmly believe the EMU will be able to run Brendan's car just fine, it's run mine great over the years, from hybrids to T67DBB with various twiddles in between, there are also several other cars out there running EMU's, including B'Haves old one at higher revs and some decent boost - and he did enjoy giving it some abuse

 

The thing is, I could spend hours and hours on tweaking and iterating the map on mine because it was an interest. Wholly impracticable if you're running a business - I must have done 50+ datalogs and about as many hours twiddling! It's that bit I used to get paid for, not really the actual day of running up and down the road, that was just fitting it to a particular car's setup.

 

So Barney is getting the benefit of that experience, because I too want to see an NA supercharged and Barney is the first person to actually finish walking the walk rather than just talking it up. I think it's gonna be easier on an NA conversion because there isn't a sequential system to fight! All* you have to do is trim the injectors back for NA ops and bring them back in as positive pressure appears. So I reckon this should be relatively plain sailing. I'll get as much of the groundwork done as possible via emailed datalogs ready for you boys

 

I looked at the MAP ECU once, El Tel let me have a look, it was rubbish. Thing is, it's designed to convert from a MAF to a MAP setup, which is its one trick. Then people tried using like an EMB or AFC and it wasn't really up to it, but the people who make it tried to fix that with the MAP ECU 2, alas it was already overshadowed by the EMU by the time it came out. Still no injector control, for example, fueling is all done off airflow signal fudging still

 

-Ian

 

*and ignition stuff of course but I can't really do that remotely

 

PS any help I can offer while it's at AFR I'll gladly give, Barney deserves a nice driveable SC-NA

Edited January 27, 2011 by Ian C (see edit history)

[johnny g]

If you want a cheap standalone from a TT6, hemmjohnny is selling one

http://www.mkivsupra.net/vbb/showthread.php?235222-AEM-EMS-ECU-V1-HKS-DLI-and-TT6-Loom

[tDR]

I like the Map ECU2 as it represents VFM and reliability IMO.

 

I'd use one again on an auto - I had good results and can confirm ignition advance works just fine. On a manual I would go for a Syvecs as I agree you'll ultimately see better results over using a 'signal fudger' piggyback with someone that knows how to map one properly.

 

I believe other issues with Barneys car and an unfamiliarity have shown it unjustly in a bad light. I found it good to work with when mapping although will admit an EMU is ultimately (see what I did there!) more flexible for some of the reasons stated. That's not to say a MAP2 can't do a good job for your spec and I disagree that you don't need ignition adjustment for reasons previously documented on this forum from my own mapping experience listening for det on my TT.

 

My 2p.

 

Cheers,

 

Brian.

[Wez]

The Syvecs can also be used on autos and has been

[tDR]

The Syvecs can also be used on autos and has been

 

That has also been said about other ECU's so I remain sceptical until I see the full low down on how it has been achieved and why the Syvecs is now different in this regard after all this time... how has the stupid high autobox line pressure issue been overcome and what about shift retard.

 

It was claimed by many that AEM had conquered this challenge but then every auto here that went for it had very harsh shifts and ultimately broken autoboxes including expensive BL boxes...

[barneybrendan]

l33 had the syvecs,im sure he was the first auto with it and it drove perfect.

[Wez]

That has also been said about other ECU's so I remain sceptical until I see the full low down on how it has been achieved and why the Syvecs is now different in this regard after all this time... how has the stupid high autobox line pressure issue been overcome and what about shift retard.

 

It was claimed by many that AEM had conquered this challenge but then every auto here that went for it had very harsh shifts and ultimately broken autoboxes including expensive BL boxes...

 

The Syvecs does it in the same way the FCON, Motec, Pectel and Autronic do, it runs as a piggyback leaving only the auto control for the stock ECU.

 

The AEM is the only one that I am aware of that tried to control the autobox and as you know does, just not very well.

Edited January 28, 2011 by Wez (see edit history)

[Joeatphr]

Sorry im late to this thread, have taken off a few days because of a death in the family and this week has been hell catching up!

 

The MAP ECU 1 does not have all the controls that the 2 does and is slowly becoming more and more outdated or should I say just not updated? The MAP ECU 1 serves a function and does it well. Doesnt have a lot of the bells and whistles that more people demand now days but it also only cost $400 USD. As for the MAP ECU II it was the NEWEST version and is ALWAYS updated with new software, firmware upgrades, linked to new bigger and better things. Changes recently made is it being linked to wifi and the Iphone or bluetooth I believe. Its also going USB I believe instead of the serial port. The map ecu II has just as many functions or more than the Emanage Ult. + you get the knowledge and deep technical support you need with the MAP ECU II unlike the Greddy where there is NO WAY you could call greddy and they would help you. MAP ECU makes on a few products that revolve around the MAP ECU itself and of course they're going to be on the ball about what needs to be done, problems they may have will be fixed etc. If something honestly major would happen to the AEM or Greddy they would put it on the backburner or discontinue it. I know how they work. You can call MAP ECU up right now depending on the hour of day and they will help you, spend time on the phone answering tech questions etc, there is EVEN a forum just about the unit!!

 

I have supported the MAP ECU and its brand for over 10 years now and they have always been supportive and came through for us. If you dont think you can tune it then if you can tune a FIC or Motec, HKS etc then you can tune this. Its a breeze, simplistic and easy to walk through.

 

Peter will be chimming in this thread to shed more technical data on the matter.

 

Thanks,

Joe

[Guest map-ecu man]

Hi, Peter from MAP-ECU here. Joe from PHR asked me to chime in. As Joe said, the MAP-ECU serves a purpose and is now 9 years old. MAP-ECU2 does what MAP-ECU did but with a whole bunch of features. I read somewhere is this LONG thread that MAP-ECU2 does not advance ignition timing. That is NOT true. The FIC only retards timing, the MAP-ECU2 ADVANCES and retards timing up to 30 degrees. We just released another firmware and software upgrade that makes it one of the most advanced NOS controllers available with RPM, TPS, Boost and Speed inputs. Our goal is to provide as many features as possible so you don't need seperate FCD's, SCD's, etc. Yes, we do not control the injectors directly but that is fine for most installations and it means it works with direct injection. We can drive auxiliary injectors directly. People who struggle with tuning usually cannot tune a MAP based ECU. In that case they should use MAF intercept mode (like EMU & FIC) which is provided with MAP-ECU2. There are 16 modes of operation. Happy to help with reasonable technical questions. :-)

[Nic]

Is the problem here not so much the different ECU's and their capabilities, but also the mapper knowledge base in the UK? I would always choose an ECU that the mapper is very experienced and confident with.

 

Is anyone in the UK using the MAP-ECU2, if so who did the mapping?

[barneybrendan]

Is the problem here not so much the different ECU's and their capabilities, but also the mapper knowledge base in the UK? I would always choose an ECU that the mapper is very experienced and confident with.

 

Is anyone in the UK using the MAP-ECU2, if so who did the mapping?

 

to be fair i think this is the problem here.My first mapper who advised to get the map 2 in the first place just ripped me off and didnt have a clue.The second mapper tried but also couldnt get it to work.i searched everywhere and asked and nobody could point me to somebody that was 100% confident in mapping it.I can understand that my whole setup is away from the normal and the only reason i stuck with the map2 and tried to get it to do its job was because the guy on the forum said it would be fine with my supercharged application.

[tDR]

Peter from MAP ECU above helped me loads to get my MAP2 up and running, including phonecalls that were late night for him - top support straight from the manufacturer.

 

As said I think the issues experienced were background issues with the car that the ECU got unjustly blamed for. MAP 2 is an excellent VFM proposition IMO and my car at the top of the drag leaderboard kinda proves it works well. The ignition advance was well utilised to get the most from hi octane fuel and see unprecedented 122mph terminals on some of my runs - standard JDM turbos, cams and only 1.1 bar boost.

 

With any of these things it's experience that counts.

[Guest map-ecu man]

Sorry about the delay, I thought I would get an email when someone posted. Thanks tDR.

 

I have had personal experience with Ben from EuroSpec2000, Russ from Sumiyaka and Marty from Supraspecialists. They have all tuned MAP-ECU2's with excellent results and some of the dyno plots on our website are from their cars. Powerhouse Racing rate Whifbitz as one of their dealers.

[gurnam]

Do you have any more info than that?

 

Can I see dyno sheets and AFR graphs?

[gurnam]

Wow just read all the new replies and have now changed my mind. I don't see the point in splashing out over £1k for a standalone which will never be used to it's full potential.

 

I'm going to take a gamble and go for the MAP2 as the mapper feels firmly confident he can do it properly and has done many before. If this works, this would be a breakthrough for getting BPU Supra's mapped in the NW for little money as currently there are none which is why it's required to drive silly miles down South to get the job done.

 

The standalone would easily have set me back over £1.5k if I included petrol to travel there and back, accomodation to stay over in a hotel, etc. Just not worth it unless I was going for a single turbo or big twins.

 

I'll post my dyno & AFR graph.

[SamuraiFlash]

There are Emanage Ultimate's on eBay dude.