intercooler water spray any good

[mellonman]

as it says on the tin are the intercooler water sprays any good does anyone run one in redline mag they say scoobys run them as standard

[Chris Wilson]

They have huge lag, and are appropriate only for specialised usage. Have a look at :

 

http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Intelligent-Intercooler-Water-Spray-Part-1/A_0527/article.html

[TubbyTwo]

Chris would the CO2 coolers be any better out of curiosity?

[Josh]

What for? I know they're not allowed for drag racing.

[TubbyTwo]

just out of interest really.

[Abz]

What for? I know they're not allowed for drag racing.

Is it? How come?

 

I am assuming to dispurse the heat? Thus making the engine run cooler/faster?

[TubbyTwo]

I know Santa pod get upset as it leaves water on the start line.

[Josh]

Is it? How come?

 

I am assuming to dispurse the heat? Thus making the engine run cooler/faster?

 

I know Santa pod get upset as it leaves water on the start line.

 

 

Just that it may leave water on the track in general.

[Tricky-Ricky]

What for? I know they're not allowed for drag racing.

 

I know Santa pod get upset as it leaves water on the start line.

 

Thats the only reason i can see as dry ice charge coolers are permitted, which are far more efficient.

 

Water spay on a FMIC road car is a waste of time.

[TubbyTwo]

I had excellent results after fitting the ST205 GT4 chargecooler to my MR2 turbo, was they best mod on the car. However probably not worth the hassle on somthing like a Supra.

[Abz]

 

Just that it may leave water on the track in general.

Ah, I thought it was like a mist type spray.

[Josh]

Ah, I thought it was like a mist type spray.

 

I think it is but could drip off onto the track.

[Chris Wilson]

People get all excited about new stuff when really a stock I/C is probably better than an unducted huge FMIC thing with a cheap core from one of the box shifters. Toyota did a superb install on the standard unit and it's extremely efficient as ALL the air entering the stock bumper aperture has to go through, rather than around the intercooler, and the exit path for the hot air is into a low pressure region in the front wheel arch. Bettering the setup is hard, how many people here have properly ducted FMIC's? Deleting the stock rad duct to fit a front mount I/C also compromises the water rad efficiency. It's easy to spend £700 and make the set up worse that stock.

[Kirk]

People get all excited about new stuff when really a stock I/C is probably better than an unducted huge FMIC thing with a cheap core from one of the box shifters. Toyota did a superb install on the standard unit and it's extremely efficient as ALL the air entering the stock bumper aperture has to go through, rather than around the intercooler, and the exit path for the hot air is into a low pressure region in the front wheel arch. Bettering the setup is hard, how many people here have properly ducted FMIC's? Deleting the stock rad duct to fit a front mount I/C also compromises the water rad efficiency. It's easy to spend £700 and make the set up worse that stock.

 

Edited January 11, 2011 by Kirk (see edit history)

[den1]

People get all excited about new stuff when really a stock I/C is probably better than an unducted huge FMIC thing with a cheap core from one of the box shifters. Toyota did a superb install on the standard unit and it's extremely efficient as ALL the air entering the stock bumper aperture has to go through, rather than around the intercooler, and the exit path for the hot air is into a low pressure region in the front wheel arch. Bettering the setup is hard, how many people here have properly ducted FMIC's? Deleting the stock rad duct to fit a front mount I/C also compromises the water rad efficiency. It's easy to spend £700 and make the set up worse that stock.

 

Spot On

[mellonman]

okay so they are poo lol

what is the best way to cool inlet temps?

[Nic]

okay so they are poo lol

what is the best way to cool inlet temps?

 

As Chris says, a good quality intercooler with an efficient core, well designed end tanks and properly ducted so the air is forced to go through it, rather than around it. What intercooler do you have fitted?

 

Water/meth injection.

[mellonman]

As Chris says, a good quality intercooler with an efficient core, well designed end tanks and properly ducted so the air is forced to go through it, rather than around it. What intercooler do you have fitted?

 

Water/meth injection.

 

i have a hks intercooler which will please you nic

it has ducting at bottom but not the sides but will soon sort that

[Shane]

Going on from what CW has said, I have been wondering if there would be any mileage in having a second series plumbed side mount cooler fitted to the other side to increase charge cooling and still making use of the orginal side mounting advantages?

[Tricky-Ricky]

okay so they are poo lol

what is the best way to cool inlet temps?

 

You could always go for water injection, and situate two jets at the IC outlet and the throttle body, that way you can benefit from both from a certain amount of charge cooling and also in cylinder cooling to help prevent det, IMO you would get far more than with an IC water spray.

[Swampy442]

An airbox, sealed from the engine bay with a cold air feed helps alot too, look at Jevansio's thread

[Terminator]

If you are looking for charge cooling better than; a well ducted, low pressure drop, highly efficient inter cooler ( so not and Ebay masterpiece) a properly controlled water injection system is the most effective.

[Chris Wilson]

Here's something I wrote on water injection, ages ago, with some tech data from elsewhere at the end. I run WI on every turbo engine I personally run.

I sell water injection, but as you may have noticed, don't push it. It's popularity goes in phases for some reason.

 

Water injection serves 2 closely related functions on a turbo engined

car. Firstly it cools the charge air temperature by utilising an effect

known as the latent heat of evaporation. This property can be self

demonstrated very easily. If you pour something that evaporates quickly

like petrol on your hand it feels very cold. This is the rapidly

vaporising spirit removing heat from your skin and bloodstream by the

aforementioned process. By spraying a very finely atomised mist of water

into the inlet of a turbo engine when under boost conditions the

evaporation of the water into steam causes a temperature reduction in the air and

fuel intake charge. A cold charge is less likely to be subject to

detonation than a hot charge. A cool charge is also denser, able to

carry more air and fuel mix per unit of volume. These 2 properties of

water injection allow either less chance of detonation at a given boost,

maybe allowing lower octane fuel to be used, or to allow a rise in boost

pressure usage without detonation. These are very desirable goals for

any modifier of a turbo engine, or one using an engine mapped to run

on a higher octane fuel than generally available in the UK. Japanese

import turbo cars for example.

 

People ask whether squirting water into an engine causes corrosion. In

fact this is not a problem, the combustion temperatures under boost

ensure the water is turned instantly to steam and is ejected out of the

exhaust. The water mist is injected only when high boost is sensed via

a supplied pressure sensor switch. The basic combustion process of

hydrocarbon fuels causes LOTS of water to be generated anyway, which is why cars

not driven on regular long journeys will rust out a mild steel exhaust

system from the INSIDE out. If water is added in the correct volume, via

the supplied, calibrated jets, this is not a problem.

 

Even when used alongside a larger or more efficient intercooler, or

indeed when an intercooler is used in an application where one was not

present as standard, water injection can and does increase charge cooling

still further. Water can be stored either in the existing windscreen

washer bottle or in a separate, dedicated, container. In cold conditions

it is essential to add an anti freeze additive to the water to stop pump

damage through freezing. Windscreen washer additive serves this purpose

fine and the engine won't mind ingesting this solution at all. Or you

can add neat methanol, which is usually the anti freeze additive in

washer fluid anyway. Using a 50 / 50 percent by volume water / methanol

mix will actually help increase the octane of the intake charge, as an

added benefit. As a yet further advantage the latent heat of evaporation

of methanol is extremely high. A win / win situation. It is not however

obligatory to use methanol as an additive. All components of the water

injection kit that are in contact with the fluid are stainless steel or

able to tolerate water and methanol or screen washer additive without

degradation. A properly set up system does not use a vast amount of

water, in fact a modern car sized screen washer bottle used also for the

water injection reservoir will suffice admirably. A water filter is

included to keep any sludge out of the pump or jet. This should be

checked regularly for contamination and blown out if residue is

apparent within.

 

A more technical explanation:

 

Let us take a quick look at ignition. Those who have a Heywood can look it up

- mines on loan so going by memory. The first thing that happens is a plasma

cloud is formed by the arc consisting of super heated electron stripped atoms.

When this cloud "explodes" a ball of high energy particles is shot outward.

 

The highest energy particles are the hydrogen atoms - and they penetrate the

charge about 5 times as far as the rest of the particles. As they lose energy

and return to normal temps - about 5000 k - they begin to react chemically

with any surrounding fuel and oxygen particles. The effectiveness of spark

ignition is directly related to the availability of free hydrogen. Molecules

containing tightly bound hydrogen such as methanol, nitromethane, and methane

are far more difficult to ignite than those with less bonds.

 

During combustion - water - H2O ( present and formed ) is extremely active in

the oxidation of the hydrocarbon. The predominate reaction is the following:

 

OH + H ==> H2O

H2O + O ==> H2O2

H2O2 ==> OH + OH

Loop to top and repeat.

 

The OH radical is the most effective at stripping hydrogen from the HC

molecule in most ranges of combustion temperature.

 

Another predominate process is the HOO radical. It is more active at lower

temperatures and is competitive with the H2O2 at higher temps.

 

OO + H ==> HOO

HOO + H ==> H2O2

H2O2 ==> OH + OH

 

This mechanism is very active at both stripping hydrogen from the HC and for

getting O2 into usable combustion reactions.

 

Next consider the combustion of CO. Virtually no C ==> CO2. Its a two step

process. C+O ==> CO. CO virtually drops out of early mid combustion as the O

H reactions are significantly faster and effectively compete for the available

oxygen.

 

Then consider that pure CO and pure O2 burns very slowly if at all. Virtually

the only mechanism to complete the oxidization ( Glassman - Combustion Third

Edition ) of CO ==> CO2 is the "water method".

 

CO + OH ==> CO2 + H

H + OH ==> H20

H2O + O ==> H2O2

H2O2 ==> OH + OH

goto to top and repeat.

 

This simple reaction accounts for 99% + of the conversion of CO to CO2. It is

important in that fully two thirds of the energy of carbon combustion is

released in the CO ==> CO2 process and that this process occurs slow and late

in the combustion of the fuel. Excess water can and does speed this

conversion - by actively entering into the conversion process thru the above

mechanism.

 

The peak flame temperature is determined by three factors alone - the energy

present and released, the total atomic mass, and the atomic ratio - commonly

called CHON for Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, and Nitrogen. The chemical

reactions in combustion leading to peak temperature are supremely indifferent

to pressure. The temperatures and rates of normal IC combustion are

sufficient to cause most of the fuel and water present to be dissociated and

enter into the flame.

 

As can be seen above, water is most definitily not only not inert but is a

very active and important player in the combustion of hydrocarbon fuel.

Ricardo and others have documented that under certain conditions ( normally

supercharged ) water can replace fuel up to about 50% and develop the same

power output, or that the power output can be increased by up to 50% addition

of water. This conditions were investigated by NACA and others for piston

aircraft engines. It is important to note that these improvements came at the

upper end of the power range where sufficient fuel and air was available to

have an excess of energy that could not be converted to usable pressure in a

timely manner.

 

As a side note - Volvo recently released some SAE papers documenting the use

of cooled EGR to both reduce detonation and return to a stoic mixture under

boost in the 15 psi range - while maintaining approximately the same power

output. Notice - they reduced fuel and still get the same power output.

 

When you consider that EGR consists primarily of nitrogen, CO2, and water ( to

the tune of about two gallons formed from each gallon of water burned ), you

might draw the conclusion that it also was not "inert". They peaked their

tests at about 18% cooled EGR - which would work out to about 36% water

injection and got about the same results under similar conditions that the

early NACA research got.

[Nic]

An airbox, sealed from the engine bay with a cold air feed helps alot too, look at Jevansio's thread

 

Like the stock airbox then

[Chris Wilson]

Like the stock airbox then

 

Yes, but probably not as good, not as well made, nor as cheap.