Gabriella Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Im not after opinions on if they are safe or not but which one would be better? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Not sure what you mean regarding safety? Weld in cages are far more structurally sound... hence safer. Bolt in cages are good for convenience and obviously offer far more structural rigidity than no cage at all, but they won't be anywhere near as solid as a weld in. The amount of "points" makes a big difference too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriella Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 So weld in then? I have heared alot of people say they could be more dangerous than none but because my seats are so low i will be well away from it. Its going to be a six point cage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Also a cage in the car will raise the risk of head injury. Even with the padding on it still hurts. Also make sure you tell your insurance as some hate the things, for this very reason. Cages were designed with helmets in mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marcAB10 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 yeah i've heard they can raise your insurance by a large amount. Any one have any examples of how much there's increased after a cage was fitted? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriella Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 Also a cage in the car will raise the risk of head injury. Even with the padding on it still hurts. Also make sure you tell your insurance as some hate the things, for this very reason. Cages were designed with helmets in mind. Again my seats are very low and even with fancy high hairstyle i still have about 10cm to reach the roof i have also 4 point harnesses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Have you got the 4 points on stock seats? Also where to have you bolted them to the body of the car. When you say cage do you mean a rear / half cage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 4 point harness will make a huge difference. I'm thinking the reason why you have read about bolt in as being safer is possibly because you were looking at half cages? The main danger is the bar across the sunvisor, on a proper cage it will be there in both Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 A bolt in cage adds some extra chassis stiffness but surprisingly, not a lot. Why? Because when we talk of chassis flex on fairly modern coupe shells we are talking of fractions of an inch. A bolted interface without dowels or high accuracy holes and consideration for what direction movement may occur allows a lot of movement. and although excellent, when correctly fitted, at stopping the shell lozenging in a big accident, a bolt in cage doesn't do much for shell rigidity. A welded in cage with all tube unions also welded results in no interface movement save due to tube flex, or the flex of the spreader plates in and on the shells panels. They are infinitely better at adding rigidity to a steel shell. Some modern weld in cages are CAD designed to be mainlystiffness adding skeletons that come with the bonus of anti lozenging properties. If the cage id for competitive usage it may well have to meet certain crteria. many (most...?) Japanese bolt in cages have no UK or European certification, so for race / sprint usage may be useless, regulations wise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 As scott has said above a full cage is more likely to cause head injury from cage impact. Also a full cage is a pain in the neck to get in and out of, for an everyday car, even more so with a low seat as you will be climbing up and over to get out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edge Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Again my seats are very low and even with fancy high hairstyle i still have about 10cm to reach the roof i have also 4 point harnesses. Also consider any taller passengers if the worst happened, i know blackie don't suffer from tallness Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriella Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) Have you got the 4 points on stock seats? Also where to have you bolted them to the body of the car. When you say cage do you mean a rear / half cage? I have Corbeau FIA standard bucket seats and the harness is bolt to the original seatbelt mountings. 4 point harness will make a huge difference. I'm thinking the reason why you have read about bolt in as being safer is possibly because you were looking at half cages? The main danger is the bar across the sunvisor, on a proper cage it will be there in both Yes i changed my mind, Im going for a full six point cage now. Little nums crash convinced me that its a good idea but this is not the reason im having it Edited January 10, 2011 by Gabriella (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriella Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 A bolt in cage adds some extra chassis stiffness but surprisingly, not a lot. Why? Because when we talk of chassis flex on fairly modern coupe shells we are talking of fractions of an inch. A bolted interface without dowels or high accuracy holes and consideration for what direction movement may occur allows a lot of movement. and although excellent, when correctly fitted, at stopping the shell lozenging in a big accident, a bolt in cage doesn't do much for shell rigidity. A welded in cage with all tube unions also welded results in no interface movement save due to tube flex, or the flex of the spreader plates in and on the shells panels. They are infinitely better at adding rigidity to a steel shell. Some modern weld in cages are CAD designed to be mainlystiffness adding skeletons that come with the bonus of anti lozenging properties. If the cage id for competitive usage it may well have to meet certain crteria. many (most...?) Japanese bolt in cages have no UK or European certification, so for race / sprint usage may be useless, regulations wise. Perfect, Thats the info i wanted. Its going to be built for me over here and up to some regulations (I cant rember which ones though) Thanks Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Sounds like a few track days are planned. The setup you have will be fine with a cage as you will be held away from the front cross bar. Are you going to go with a through the dash or a dash dodger as personally I hate dash dodgers as there is more chance the the leg coming in at you if the worst wash to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Also consider any taller passengers if the worst happened, i know blackie don't suffer from tallness Balls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriella Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) Sounds like a few track days are planned. The setup you have will be fine with a cage as you will be held away from the front cross bar. Are you going to go with a through the dash or a dash dodger as personally I hate dash dodgers as there is more chance the the leg coming in at you if the worst wash to happen. Not totally sure which one to go for as of yet but i have the dash dodger in mind. Edited January 10, 2011 by Gabriella (see edit history) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevins Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 That is the most car friendly style of cage, no need to cut the dash Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Fensport and partbox both supply cussco bolt in cages, i got mine from partbox.com, i went with a through dash with door bars, i cant see anything stopping you from welding it in if needed, its steel. http://www.fensport.co.uk/ http://partbox.co.uk/ These look good value for a weld in rear cage, shipping might be pricey. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mazworx-94-Toyota-Supra-MKIV-U-Weld-Roll-Bar-Kit-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3efc591bb0QQitemZ270521670576QQptZRaceQ5fCarQ5fParts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriella Posted January 10, 2011 Author Share Posted January 10, 2011 Fensport and partbox both supply cussco bolt in cages, i got mine from partbox.com, i went with a through dash with door bars, i cant see anything stopping you from welding it in if needed, its steel. http://www.fensport.co.uk/ http://partbox.co.uk/ These look good value for a weld in rear cage, shipping might be pricey. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mazworx-94-Toyota-Supra-MKIV-U-Weld-Roll-Bar-Kit-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem3efc591bb0QQitemZ270521670576QQptZRaceQ5fCarQ5fParts Brilliant, great info I have found someone to custom built me one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey. Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Your crazy!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dr_jekyll Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 youl want a straight leg thnrough dash . iv heard the legs collaps on the das dodgers if they are put through there paces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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