TonytotheB Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I think you missed the point Tony. Yes it may cost an extra £10 here or there but that isn't going to 'hurt' me However I was interested in the post because maybe he has or knows something we don't or has a vast personal fortune, again where the price of petrol is insignificant (as it is for me because of my personal circumstances). Yes I agree there is a difference between "I couldn't give a monkeys" and "There is nothing I can do, so why should I let it get to me?", but surely the latter is just apathy? and 'you' may not be able to do something but 'people' united can do something, just look at the protests a few years ago. You'll still be short, maybe only slightly and if it doesn't hurt you then great. But you are still short. Can I borrow a tenner for some pancakes this year? And I hate you... but still would like that tenner haha I am nodding my head at the apathy comment. Yes, it is actually. But being apathetic is easier these days. Did protesting over fuel prices actually result in any change in the favour of the people? Maybe I missed it and I am happy to admit I am mistaken. I guess I have a split personality. Over this issue I am apathetic. Over Tuition Fees I was extremely disappointed and wanted to protest, with the mindset that sometimes we shouldn't just sit by. Complicated, eh? Maybe it's a 'pick your battles' mindset. Who knows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toyotasupra1980 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 the way things are going it won't be long until it hits £2 a litre, it can happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbeh Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Just for comparison, its $3.25 USD in the US for a gallon around NY/CT. It'll only stop when people start complaining/taking action in this country, we don't and just put up with things and then get fleeced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adnanshah247 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 its funny how we brake our arses day and night earning money and then simply let this country suck us dry! vat and tax on everything and still we need to cough up when our government screws up. pathetic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytotheB Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Just for comparison, its $3.25 USD in the US for a gallon around NY/CT. It'll only stop when people start complaining/taking action in this country, we don't and just put up with things and then get fleeced. I don't really fancy turning up to protest and being bashed by overzealous Police officers with riot gear If someone came up with a good way of complaining/taking action, I'd be up for it. Maybe a drive down to London in 50+ Supras to clog up the streets will make them listen. BTW, who is 'them'? Who do we have to complain to? The Oil Companies? The Government who take a stupid amount of tax from each litre? Forecourt attendants? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 The really absurd thing is that you can run an engine on water! Stan & Steve Meyer perfected the technology decades ago. At the very least you can improve efficiency. That's to say nothing of the real state of the art in propulsion technology which we'll never know. Lithium stocks are up and for now it seems like a viable alternative but that's never going to last. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aero-M Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 In reply to supramanuk comment on page 3: Strange thing to say, I don't know your personal circumstances but money can't be an issue for you. whether you can afford it, or if you can't, it still takes the piss that the costs are spiraling so high. I am very worried about the potential for prices to increase to £1.50-£2.00 a litre, That will have a massive effect on my life as I'm someone who needs vehicles for work, We don't have any spare money at the end of the month to cover these stupid prices. The supra doesn't need to be driven and won't be if that's the case but I still have a van of my own to run and my wifes car, There is now way we could be without them/use alternative methods of transport. I'm also worried about the effect it will have for the company I work for, We have 4 vans each being filled up 2 times a week and with 80 litre tanks that is not cheap for a business already struggling to make money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RICHARDA Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Enough is enough for me after 10 yrs of fine Supra ownership its Triumph Street Triple R for my kicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attero Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 If someone came up with a good way of complaining/taking action, I'd be up for it. Maybe a drive down to London in 50+ Supras to clog up the streets will make them listen. I'm in. 1. Attero ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogmaw Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 The politicians already know they are on thin ice when it comes to setting taxes and duty for fuel. If not, they would just slap 10p, 20p, even 50p on top right now instead of just a few pence. The point is, the money to reduce the deficit has to come from somewhere. If you believe it's your right to run a petrol-hungry supra AND have cheap fuel, you probably believe in fairies too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Attero Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 The politicians already know they are on thin ice when it comes to setting taxes and duty for fuel. If not, they would just slap 10p, 20p, even 50p on top right now instead of just a few pence. The point is, the money to reduce the deficit has to come from somewhere. If you believe it's your right to run a petrol-hungry supra AND have cheap fuel, you probably believe in fairies too. Fairies are real... I saw one on new years eve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytotheB Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I'm in. 1. Attero ... Good lad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Good lad Sorry but this one turned into another College Lecture so skip if easily distracted! Yes, I'm also up for a mass Supra blockade, (I can imagine the headlines; "Gas Guzzler's Grief Goads Growing Gathering" etc.) but I'll try to explain why I don't think one country's irate driver's will make any difference without a major standstill. I'm not sure exactly who controls global oil prices, (a few oil Executives for sure but they're a secretive bunch at the top), so we'll have to wait until the U.S. population kick off first, as they actually have a written Constitution and a Bill of Rights to defend. Some have even read them. We on the other hand, having a largely diluted sense of national identity and consequent lack of organisation or common ground are over a barrel, no pun intended. We're far too adaptable for our own good and we just put up with everything that's thrown at us. We need to start throwing it back but so many people work for the government in one way or another, or rely on their contracts that they dare not bite the hand that feeds them. This dependency is no accident. A fuel blockade worked for the truckers, sort of. They managed to make a point but probably did more harm than good in the long run since they were appeased with some deal or other and despite ever rising prices we haven't heard a whimper out of them since 2000ish. We'd all have to stop buying fuel and go on general strike as has been said. The whole planet, that is. Oil is the global currency, afterall. It replaced gold a long time ago. Until relatively recently, oil was only sold in U.S. Dollars (affectionately called Petrodollars). This allowed The U.S. to print money based on oil production and thus finance themselves after they abandoned the Gold Standard under Nixon in 1971. Since then there's been rampant inflation eroding the value of the Dollar and living standards have gone down from their peak at that time in the U.S. They may have better cars now (and even that's debatable) but they have much more debt, as do we. The Dollar has since lost it's dominance and China among others now apparently refuses to pay for oil in Dollars and fund U.S. debt on the scale that it did previously via the purchase of Treasury Bonds, (a fixed interest investment over a 30 year timeframe guaranteed by the government, although futures and options mean that you can trade as short a time frame as you wish, for leveraged returns). T-Bond futures are the most actively traded commodity and Crude Oil is second, iirc. I think the only way to really change anything is to fundamentally change ourselves and evolve towards an understanding that we're all on the same planet and should share everything more evenly. This requires a much longer term view of things. At the moment, we are 'rich' because someone else is poor, despite the fact that there's enough for everyone but only 5% own 95% of the wealth/land etc. so even a cap on the maximum income to say £20 million a year would still have a huge positive impact on available funds for reform measures, e.g. real foreign aid and not land grabbing in return for debt reduction etc. The only reason Africa is poor for example is because of foreign aid (loans) which can never be repaid. In return for reduced debt, they have to agree to give up their rights to their own resources. It also helps if the banking elite install corrupt leaders who start wars which keep the country from ever realizing what's going on. Divide and rule. We're naturally happy to coexist and have to be persuaded to fight eachother. It isn't natural and conflict is actually counterproductive for our survival, as more people can find or produce more food. There's also a better chance of one of them inventing a better way to do it. We're asked on T.v. to give £2 a month to save a child's life and their own government can't organise a basic water supply and sewage system, despite billions in 'aid'. You're as likely to be funding a guerilla faction which arms children with AK47's for all you know! The powers that be ain't gonna give it up without a fight and remember the golden rule; he who has the gold, makes the rules! He also writes the history books too Politicians are representative of the population (in theory anyway) and if we were all self-responsible, i.e. honest with ourselves and by extension, eachother, politics would have to reflect that or the behaviour differential would be so obvious that they'd never get away with such corruption. Look at how many people forgive the expenses scandals as if "Everyone does it so big deal". People soon realise that they're being hypercritical when they get upset and then just shrug their shoulders. "Oh well, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em!" This is no excuse. So long as people buy the nonsense that they're told by the corporate-owned mass-media and government, the wealth divide will only get bigger. Slavery used to be imposed overtly by force, then finally people objected to it and now it's financially manipulated instead. Same result, just much more sophisticated. Instead of the whip, we have the Television and mass-hypnosis or 'hysteria on demand'. You'd be forgiven for thinking that Jo Yeates' murder was the only newsworthy topic at the moment when we're busy invading whoever we like. People are being programmed like computers. It's an exact science and they know exactly what they're doing. Same rich families still in power after centuries. Rothschilds, Rockefellers, etc. and Royals of all sorts since how long? http://www.reformation.org/rockefeller.html (haven't read it all but gives some insight if true). Nothing has changed in the mentality of the upper class twits since the slave trade. Look at foxhunting for example. Some of them would hunt children if they could get away with it. Apparently in The U.S. some wealthy traders/brokers do - because they can. Some 16-17 year old soldiers greatly enjoy killing innocent civilians in Afghanistan or Iraq like it's just a video game. They revel in it and couldn't give a rats rear about the suffering of others, animal or human. Fortunately the evolutionary process is automatic (or we'd never have made it this far by chance alone) and people are waking up in droves now and seeing the BS for what it is. Denial of the obvious is all that's holding the powers that be aloft and they're banking, literally, on our acquiescence and unwillingness to face the truth, which is, that we are being lied to by the media, since sadly, that's all it takes to achieve their goals these days. They don't have to de-populate the planet with war and disease. Education would achieve the same thing but educated people are hard to control and extract wealth from. Money is a means of exchange but it is also a means of control. That's why interest rates are used to regulate our spending habits. What would happen if base rates went up from 0.5 to 5% over the next year? Do you think it couldn't happen? The U.S. put rates up 18 times in a row and crashed their housing market a couple of years ago, quite predictably. It was inevitable. Then it was "OOPS!, what happened?" Only then was the sub-prime mortgage scandal revealed, where banks were lending people money that they knew probably couldn't pay it back and betting that the Mortgage-backed Securities would lose money, in order to make a profit by selling high and buying low. They were shorting their own stocks! The bottom line is that we all need oil for transport because alternative technologies have been suppressed or underfunded. The problem is that some people believe that they are God's chosen ones and view everyone else as cattle to be abused. They hoard the wealth and then wonder why they are persecuted! Unfortunately it has to get a lot worse before it gets better because only when financial desperation affects every one of us will we finally have nothing to lose and do something meaningful about it. At the moment unfortunately, most people don't even want to know the real extent of the problem, let alone the solution. United we stand, divided we fall. Amen. 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CJ Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I got about 1/3 through that and gave up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dnk Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Whether your bothered or not we are all affected, even if you dont drive a car, a lot of trains run on diesel, most buses, how do you think your food gets to Tesco's and just about everything else we take for granted. It wont just be your fuel bill going through the roof. Welcome to poverty rock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedM Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 If you believe it's your right to run a petrol-hungry supra AND have cheap fuel, you probably believe in fairies too. If this was Facebook I'd be hitting the 'like' button right now. Great post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-Ricky Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Originally Posted by hogmaw If you believe it's your right to run a petrol-hungry supra AND have cheap fuel, you probably believe in fairies too. Actually why the hell not? Sounds like its time to que the revolution then;) what galls me is that we vote the buggers in, and then find that they are not quite doing things the way they said, and we then sit back on our asses and say oh well, they must be doing it for our own good, and it will all come right in the end, BULLOCKS! IMO there is just as much double dealing and corruption in politics as anywhere else, they have there own agenda, cleverly masked in doing things for the good of the country, we just sit back and swallow the rises in tax, fuel, food, etc, and suffer the cuts in the armed forces, policing, industry, health service, welfare, there even cutting the coast guard WTF! and so as a result of all this, all prices go up, the amount of jobs available goes down, along with massive redundancy's, and its not hard to see where that all leads, as already said, the rich will just get richer, and they are the ones that make the rules, and we just bend over an take it! rant over, (for now) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 It'll only stop when people start complaining/taking action in this country, we don't and just put up with things and then get fleeced. They will only put the tax on something else, either way we will pay, at least the roads will be clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytotheB Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Whether your bothered or not we are all affected, even if you dont drive a car, a lot of trains run on diesel, most buses, how do you think your food gets to Tesco's and just about everything else we take for granted. It wont just be your fuel bill going through the roof. Welcome to poverty rock Good point. Everything is based on crude oil. Everything it manufactured using some of it. Watch a film called Collapse and have a laugh. You'll feel depressed after it. Peak Oil! Too many people are happy with their lives; earning money to spend at the weekend or on fancier shoes/clothes/TVs/cars than Mr. and Mrs. Jones. They just don't question anything. I am one of them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Sorry CJ! I ate a massive chunk of coffee and walnut cake last night and I'm still buzzing! Some people might dismiss a lot of my posts but I read about average speed cameras for example, 17 years ago (before the WWW) and they haven't even started yet. The idea is to cover the whole country with toll roads, like the congestion zones. The roads might be clear Jamie but the tax will pay for more cameras so we're effectively building our own prison. The country is really an open prison anyway now with random Police checkpoints and even civilian speed camera teams, instead of parents and schools teaching kids not to run in the road or keeping an eye on them if they're too young to know better. Even the U.S. want to introduce cross State passports and they are building a 'Canamex' highway to enable cheap goods from Mexico to be trucked into the States and Canada, which they want to merge into The North American Union. Of course, if you keep your head down and do as you're told, you'll be left alone. In 1984 I remember thinking that George Orwell's Big Brother society was impossible. Now I'm not so sure. Same thing with The Holocaust. We wonder how it ever happened and yet we're committing genocide right now ourselves. Now you have David Cameron talking about Big Society and 1984 seems rather tame. The only thing that's not happened is banning unauthorised intercourse, atleast for the over 16's. Honour killings notwithstanding but I mean here. Infact they're even doing that here too and trying to get it passed into law, no doubt. Even Minority Report looks to be coming true with brain scanning technology that can profile air passengers (always good Guinea Pigs those; I mean, what are you gonna do?) by reading their minds and now we have full body X Rays like in Total Recall. Aldous Huxley wrote a novel called Brave New World in 1931 and one of his students, Eric Blair (George Orwell was his pseudonym) then wrote 1984 in 1948 with his spin on the future into which we find ourselves sleepwalking. The world is run by Corporations with a legal duty to put their shareholders first. Ever increasing profits therefore require perpetual inflation of the money supply, as does population growth. Boom and bust are the symptoms of a poorly adjusted money supply. A very difficult task indeed using interest rates alone. Our dependence on oil is on one level due to the Bush family business but that's just one aspect of the Military Industrial Complex that Eisenhower warned us of in this speech; it's 19 minutes total so you might skip to part two where he begins addressing the problem as he saw it then. Short version rd8wwMFmCeE Full version S9_fyDV7Mnk cbUAwCE7JVY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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