gt4tosupra Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 For all u non beleivers:d:d:d:d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 For all u non beleivers:d:d:d:d Equates to 28% power loss through the drivetrain - there's your issue right there. 263bhp at the wheels is more likely circa 300 fly tops. Certainly not 350bhp that's for sure! ;-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 4wd have a lot higher drivetrain lose, not sure 28% is right though, AFR's look a bit ropey, you are at full boost for a while before they go to a acceptable level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I'd buy 320bhp, not 350bhp, though, that's 22% drivetrain loss. (MR2 Turbo was around 17% transmission loss) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 I have always thought 25-30% is the norm for 4wd, some mention losses of 35% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scotty71 Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 On my mates Scooby 06 WRX his graph is 333 at fly 222 at the wheels - 33% loss through the drivetrain I keep tellin him thats 4wd for ya Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt4tosupra Posted January 2, 2011 Author Share Posted January 2, 2011 Equates to 28% power loss through the drivetrain - there's your issue right there. 263bhp at the wheels is more likely circa 300 fly tops. Certainly not 350bhp that's for sure! ;-P As scotty71 and jamieP have said, 4wd obviously has bigger transmission loss than 2wd, my last gt4 was absolutely standard and read 260bhp at the fly and 199 at the wheels, =24% loss, i started a thread on the gt4oc about this little debate and as mentioned before a few lads have seen 330-350 with these mods on standard turbo. Also, a number of gt4oc long term members were there on that rolling road day when this car DID achieve that power figure, with the cat in btw:p 337 is what the graph says and the car DOES put that power out at 1.1 bar, in this cold snap car has been boosting to 1.2+, hence higher than 337bhp:D Please put this to bed now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Disagree - the loss figures are a guess. You could avoid all this with an ad just stating 263bhp at the wheels, though unfortunately it doesn't sound so impressive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
straightsix Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Disagree - the loss figures are a guess. You could avoid all this with an ad just stating 263bhp at the wheels, though unfortunately it doesn't sound so impressive! It sounds OK if you know how much gets lost through the transfer box! It's not a bad looking car - hope it sells quickly for you bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Disagree - the loss figures are a guess. You could avoid all this with an ad just stating 263bhp at the wheels, though unfortunately it doesn't sound so impressive! With you on this - also, if the 3SGTE in the GT4 makes this power, why doesn't the MR2 make more at the wheels, with it's lower transmission losses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edge Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 My GT4 had Fmic, clocked turbo for better fmic piping route, power fc ecu etc and was about 330bhp 1.1 bar @ fly. You can feel the drivetrain sucking the power as you get through to the end of third gear. My friend had a fairly stock r33 @ 250 bhp roughly and these were neck and neck in a straight line. But a few bhp here and there who cares. Alot of dynos are slightly different. But these cars are seriously great fun in the twistys. And when i took mine out in the snow the grip was unbelievable with just some toyo t1r's on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adnanshah247 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 i own a gt4 simple spec that i also have for sale, i think mine is about 280-290 brake on a mint engine running 1.1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt4tosupra Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 It sounds OK if you know how much gets lost through the transfer box! It's not a bad looking car - hope it sells quickly for you bud Cheers straightsix, and jonnyG the mr2 has a rev2 3sgte, the st205 celica has a rev3 so there's 20bhp ish difference there alone, my blitz access ecu alone will add approx 30bhp with that one mod, cheers Adnan your car is 280-290 on a simple spec, so 337bhp with all my mods is pretty easy, only 47bhp more...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt4tosupra Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 My GT4 had Fmic, clocked turbo for better fmic piping route, power fc ecu etc and was about 330bhp 1.1 bar @ fly. You can feel the drivetrain sucking the power as you get through to the end of third gear. My friend had a fairly stock r33 @ 250 bhp roughly and these were neck and neck in a straight line. But a few bhp here and there who cares. Alot of dynos are slightly different. But these cars are seriously great fun in the twistys. And when i took mine out in the snow the grip was unbelievable with just some toyo t1r's on. Thanks Edge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny g Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Cheers straightsix, and jonnyG the mr2 has a rev2 3sgte, the st205 celica has a rev3 so there's 20bhp ish difference there alone, my blitz access ecu alone will add approx 30bhp with that one mod, cheers Adnan your car is 280-290 on a simple spec, so 337bhp with all my mods is pretty easy, only 47bhp more...... Correction, the Rev 1/2 MR2 has the 225bhp version of the 3SGTE. The Rev 3/4/5 has the 245bhp version. Basically, the Rev 1/2 MR2 has the same turbo as the ST185 (CT26). The Rev 3/4/5 MR2 has the same turbo as the (CT20b) ST205. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 It sounds OK if you know how much gets lost through the transfer box! Enlighten me.... oh that's right, you can't! Neither of us knows - it's all conjecture but looking at johnny's post: With you on this - also, if the 3SGTE in the GT4 makes this power, why doesn't the MR2 make more at the wheels, with it's lower transmission losses? EXACTLY!!! RE: the engine differences, as has been pointed out the rev.3 on MR2 Turbo has the same engine / turbo / fuel system as the ST205 - just an SMIC instead of a CC. Certainly an interesting way to keep bumping a for sale thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil_Nuts Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Meh....i still like it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt4tosupra Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 Enlighten me.... oh that's right, you can't! Neither of us knows - it's all conjecture but looking at johnny's post: EXACTLY!!! RE: the engine differences, as has been pointed out the rev.3 on MR2 Turbo has the same engine / turbo / fuel system as the ST205 - just an SMIC instead of a CC. Certainly an interesting way to keep bumping a for sale thread! Your the one bumping my for sale thread not me, i have simply put my 337bhp car up for sale with proof of the power with a dyno readout done on an RR day with a load of club members who saw and agree it, END OF STORY! Realise your wrong tdr and that you've learnt something:rlol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieP Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 This thread seems to get a few guests viewing each time i look in, is there a thread on some gt4 owners clubs talking about this one? the new member named jz80rshite made me wonder also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey. Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 This thread seems to get a few guests viewing each time i look in, is there a thread on some gt4 owners clubs talking about this one? the new member named jz80rshite made me wonder also. oh no, not a supra vs gt4 online forum battle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 This thread seems to get a few guests viewing each time i look in, is there a thread on some gt4 owners clubs talking about this one? the new member named jz80rshite made me wonder also. Most likely - seems a bit much that given we're both performance Toyota enthusiasts clubs... Why on earth would I admit I'm wrong gt4tosupra - for a start I'm never wrong - and I don't see why you seem to think you have some concrete evidence that means you're right about your claims. You seriously think that a bunch of GT4 owners are going to argue that their cars really produce less power than whatever fairyland dyno flywheel horsepower claims they all got on the same day.... always the same with power figures, it's the same in this club too and exactly the reason I never bothered claiming a power figure for my car. I still maintain the real world measure of a cars performance as far as how powerful goes is 1/4 mile terminal speed. I asked earlier but you conveniently ignored it... what terminal goes with that 13.2 1/4 mile ET? As the time itself isn't much better than can be achieved in a stock ST205. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adnanshah247 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 just to make it clear folks i raced my 290hp celica vs a 340hp proven EVO and i kicked his back side only thanks to this, i had a brand southbend clutch in my car and it planted the power down like anything, imagine a full on 4 wheel will spin launch lol anyways glws its a nice car and honestly being a gt4 and supra owner all i can say is yes the gt4 is an awesome car but a supra it will never be!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gt4tosupra Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 Most likely - seems a bit much that given we're both performance Toyota enthusiasts clubs... Why on earth would I admit I'm wrong gt4tosupra - for a start I'm never wrong - and I don't see why you seem to think you have some concrete evidence that means you're right about your claims. You seriously think that a bunch of GT4 owners are going to argue that their cars really produce less power than whatever fairyland dyno flywheel horsepower claims they all got on the same day.... always the same with power figures, it's the same in this club too and exactly the reason I never bothered claiming a power figure for my car. I still maintain the real world measure of a cars performance as far as how powerful goes is 1/4 mile terminal speed. I asked earlier but you conveniently ignored it... what terminal goes with that 13.2 1/4 mile ET? As the time itself isn't much better than can be achieved in a stock ST205. Ok so dyno dynamics who make these rolling roads should just recall them all cos whats more reliable is driver ability, the BIGGEST variable ever, to measure a cars power? My terminal speed was 98mph, it was my first ever 1/4 mile run day, and it was at RAF Barkston Heath so not even good smooth quality tarmac. If my grandma drove your car up the 1/4 and achieved 20mph terminal, does that mean your supra is really a pedal go kart? See what i mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adnanshah247 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Faster than a standard Supra TT btw!:p( i would say though dude, the celica would blitz the supra a lil in the first 2 gears but trust me the gt4 doesnt stand a chance once the supra gets under boost, been there done that and had my ass torn apart when i made claims that a celica is quicker lol it was actually abz who wooped me lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tDR Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Funny that, an admin on GT4OC just PM'd me on gt4oc.net to say amongst other things, pretty much the same about the dynos. It seems you have a thread in members only over there which is now spawning trolls on this forum... I can imagine the upset that is obviously in that thread as I seem to have outraged GT-Four owners with the reality check on power figures. Given this thread has well and truly tanked as a for sale thread and in the interests of Interclub relations, I'll close this and copy your original ad to a new thread - I really shouldn't have carried on this discussion on the ad as it is a bit pissy but my inner sense of what's right wouldn't let the power figure go unchallenged RE: 1/4 mile terminals - you have to assume everyone puts the pedal to the metal on the 1/4 otherwise what's the point? I agree 1/4 mile time isn't accurate as a benchmark but IMO terminal is as the launch (and related surface excuses!) is taken out of the equation. Your 98mph terminal doesn't say 350bhp to me Cheers, Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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