mazman Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 every1 says the t88 is too big,why is that? in the US,every1 uses them and get great results! i think as long as you keep the A/R in the lower range it should still be good. down here in the aussie land,every1 uses the new garret ball bearing turbos,like gt35,gt42,gt45... while talking about the bosch pumps,are you talking about the bosch motorsport 044 pumps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Exactly mazman,Us guys put t88's on cars which run 700+hp through original unopened engine.So i think we should be able to use t88 as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Well get a T-88 then!!! Not sure which model code the bosch pumps are but they are in tank ones and push 160L/h @ 6-8bar.... The good thing with getting a T-88 is that you can run it at low boost to achieve your 600hp goal. But a T-88 at 1bar is only just getting going.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Cheers for the advice..eventhough i am going 4 a t88. Ithink its 3 grand the whole kit.What you reacon is that a good price? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaz Walker Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Hi guys... Personally usmann, the T88 is too big. Listen to what people are telling you. If you only (i say only ) want 600hp then its not for you. Yes, you'll get your 600hp, but you wont get any boost till 5k revs which is gonna be no use. Get a smaller turbo, which running high boost (25psi+) will get you your 600hp and it'll start making boost below 3k revs and full boost by 4k And for your info, hardly anyone in the states has a T88, for all of the reasons above. The only car I know that has one and is making good figures is Jesus's. There are so many better kits available in the states - DE, SP, RPS to name a few. Gaz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wesmi01 Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Hmm, caught back to the future. Forget the Turbo's, were do we get this plutonian stuff from!!!!! and a fluck capacitor!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 ummmm......suppose ur right:( But...then all other turbos such as t04r a more expensive and i dont want twins. Gaz.....what you think..which turbo should i go 4. But i bet whichever its gonna cost more than 4g's,where t88h is 2500quid for the kit! What you think about TO4R? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Quality costs. If it'll fit an RHD car then an SP66 would get my vote. $5600 fo the entire kit I believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 No offence, but if you're worried about saving a grand on something as critical as turbo selection, you might want to reconsider this project. I know that nobody likes throwing money away but to do this right you're going to have to sign a lot of big cheques! For a T88 to work properly, you'll need to rework the engine internals in their entirity I think, forged pistons and rods, maybe a new crank, certainly a new valvetrain. Then you can rev it to 8-8.5k and get that massive turbo spinning properly and start to see the benefits of its large size. A T78 is the largest turbo that will work properly on a relatively stock engine I reckon - you'll need a serious fuel system, and serious fuel in it (ie 110 octane or more), but you should start to see boost at 4.5k, good power from 5k upwards. From what I've read on supraforums the T78 is old hat though, there are newer turbos on the market which offer the same or greater power and need less revs to do it. If you want to start at 600 brake and work upwards, you could ry talking to Sound Performance (SP) - I think one of their kits will enable you to fit any one of about 15 turbos, all available in different ar's etc. If I were you, I'd talk to the guys at http://www.supraforums.com cos drag racing is what they do, all day every day. Over here people are most concerned about driveability and usable power, even those with big single installs. Outline your bhp and 1/4mile time goals and they will come up with a solution I'm sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavio Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Adam is right, it's not just the turbo kit you have to pay for. You need at least a big frount mounted intercooler, an upgraded clutch, piggyback electronics (VPC/GCC) or a different ECU, a large fuel system, NOS (if you will have a really big turbo), a boost controller, downpipe (not always included in the turbokit), bigger exhaust (go with the HKS Titanium, it can handle the biggest turbos), different cams, etc. Sound Performance is developing an entry level turbokit that will cost about $2500-$3000 with the smallest turbo but you can always get this kit with a big turbo. I don't know if they will fit a RHD car though. Also are you going to fit it yourself? If not labour will be a substantial amount of money especially if you go the different ECU way which you need to finetune. Flavio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GavinL Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Sounds like a good 10K+ fitted So with all of this in mind it may be better to establish the budget and work backwards to what it can buy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Adam Why do you say there is a need to change the rods and pistons , i thought these were allready forged items , surely if the stock bottom end is balanced and a steel h.gasket fitted it will hold together , some of the supps on the i.supra.com site are running 900+ bhp thru standard bottom ends , not arguing just trying to accumalate info . John:flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 John, The internals are rated by most for about 500BHP at 2bar ish...that's a bit of an extrapolation on my part. I would suggest more power at a lower boost would be fine to a point. But adam was more pointing out the revving thing....you must lighten the valvetrain, pistons and rods (as well as strengthen them) if you want to rev it/sustain major boost and NOS. We all know what the yanks manage....but they seem to care less for reliability than we do. guess that's why we make their race cars.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dude Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Alex out of intrest if a car with a decent exhaust , FMIC etc could sustain 2Bar of boost what sort of hp would it put out , roughly . John:flame Dev Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 IF you could run 2bar on HYBRIDS (stocker's would blow up) which you shouldn't cause of the EGT's on that tiny manifold.... than about 550-600 crank hp is possible IMO. But this would have to include head porting, WI, FMIC, Valvetrain, pistons, rods, lots of fuel....and probably a permanent supply of Toluene for the fuel tank. I think Mark Brown (sorry might have forgot his name) has run his hybrid motor at 2bar, without blowing it up, but I'm not sure....it is very risky IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavio Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by dudersvr Alex out of intrest if a car with a decent exhaust , FMIC etc could sustain 2Bar of boost what sort of hp would it put out , roughly . John:flame Dev You can use the absolute turbo pressure as a very rough indicator of how the power will grow when raising boost. 2 bar is 3 bar absolute 1.2 bar is 2.2 bar absolute So 2 bar would roughly give 36% more power (3/2.2) than 1.2 bar. If the car has 400hp at 1.2 bar it would have 544hp at 2 bar. But remember this is only a very rough calculation. Flavio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam W Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 It depends entirely on what turbo you're talking about. 2 bar on stock twins would kill em in seconds, but theoretically about 500bhp at a wild guess. 2 bar on a T88H or similar would be about 900-1100, depending entirely on the octane of the fuel, the revs you could spin it at, etc etc. The reason I mentioned changing the rods and pistons is not so much ultimate strength, more about spinning the engine fast enough to get a usable power band. f you look at the dyno charts on supraforums, the real monster turbos have only just woken up when it hits the redline at 7k or whatever. If you could pull through to 9k (or 12k like Mario!) you could work the turbo a lot harder and get a lot more benefit from it. The stock engine is bloody strong for sure, and theres a great body of evidence which says they'll run happily at 600bhp or so, but I think it's unrealistic to expect it to sustain a TRIPLING of power and sustained high-rev operations without it throwing a major wobbly very quickly. All IMHO of course. Never had a big turbo car meself, but I like to read about them and those are the conclusions I've come to! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wilson Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by Adam Wootten It depends entirely on what turbo you're talking about. 2 bar on stock twins would kill em in seconds, but theoretically about 500bhp at a wild guess. 2 bar on a T88H or similar would be about 900-1100, depending entirely on the octane of the fuel, the revs you could spin it at, etc etc. The reason I mentioned changing the rods and pistons is not so much ultimate strength, more about spinning the engine fast enough to get a usable power band. f you look at the dyno charts on supraforums, the real monster turbos have only just woken up when it hits the redline at 7k or whatever. If you could pull through to 9k (or 12k like Mario!) you could work the turbo a lot harder and get a lot more benefit from it. The stock engine is bloody strong for sure, and theres a great body of evidence which says they'll run happily at 600bhp or so, but I think it's unrealistic to expect it to sustain a TRIPLING of power and sustained high-rev operations without it throwing a major wobbly very quickly. All IMHO of course. Never had a big turbo car meself, but I like to read about them and those are the conclusions I've come to! I share your conclusion, and agree with above, FWIW. 900 BHP from a stock internalled motor??? I would HAVE to see this, on an engine dyno, on pump fuel, no nitrous, before I stopped wetting myself laughing at the very thought :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark brown Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Alex, is right, I am running 2 bar on Hybrids and have been for nearly 2 years and haven't blown it up yet, but I keep a very close eye on EGT's. Also 550cc injectors, AIC Kit with 2 additional injectors, uprated fuel pump, FMIC, WI, Cams, Blitz Ecu, Octane booster etc and believe me that is right on the limit for Hybrids. Driveability is ok, but more lag than stock. I've gone this route as mine is an auto, big single or twins would be too laggy in my opinion for an auto. Mark Brown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Usmann A Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Im not 100% on getting the work done just have figured out my supe spending amount...and am inquireing for a good 600hp conversion. I feel that the t51r will suit the car....with gasket...new fuel system(pump,regualtor,injectors,rail) Also found a chap in banbury who offically programs motec ecus...if i went through with it itll be the m800 pro or m48. But....... guys i ahvent forgot about all the other needed parts....i went in the tubby first cos it being the heart of the conversion. They r lots of other bits and bobs e.g quickshifts,nos. When i get a full price ill put up the spec sheets..thats if i go for the conversion. Also what about hks3037s turbo kit? By the way iv already got a n "arc" intercooler...trpe s good for 800hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flavio Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by mark brown Alex, is right, I am running 2 bar on Hybrids and have been for nearly 2 years and haven't blown it up yet, but I keep a very close eye on EGT's. Also 550cc injectors, AIC Kit with 2 additional injectors, uprated fuel pump, FMIC, WI, Cams, Blitz Ecu, Octane booster etc and believe me that is right on the limit for Hybrids. Driveability is ok, but more lag than stock. I've gone this route as mine is an auto, big single or twins would be too laggy in my opinion for an auto. Mark Brown Mark, Have you ever tested whether your hybrids actually give more power at 2 bar compared to say 1.5 bar? Flavio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 3037's on a RB26DETT have produced over 1,000bhp. The 2JZ is a bigger displacement but doesn't rev as high....but should still be capable of the same..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Posted January 2, 2003 Share Posted January 2, 2003 Originally posted by Flavio Mark, Have you ever tested whether your hybrids actually give more power at 2 bar compared to say 1.5 bar? Flavio Mark, Have you got any dyno results and what are your EGT'S? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark brown Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 Haven't dynoed it but just from driving it 2 bar gives a more than 1.5 bar. EGT runs 900 at 1.5 bar, extended 2 bar boost 1000. Turbos are not overheating the air even at 2 bar. I have air temperature sensors pre and post intercooler and post intercooler temepratures remain stable. Bear in mind though that I am putting a lot of fuel in to try to keep it relatively safe. I've also got 75bhp NOS fitted for use when I want to overcome lag. Don't use it much as no real need. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MONKEYmark Posted January 3, 2003 Share Posted January 3, 2003 the RPS kit sounds good as you can bolt on various turbos for different events. the t66 turbo supposed to be good for up to 700bhp and is a fast spooling turbo. would it be possible to bolt on 2 t66 turbos to run in twin turbo mode, just curious if it would work well a fast spooling high power supra.is it just a matter of getting base plates to bolt them on?. sorting all your other stuff out like fueling and mapping. dont know if engine could take it. i have read of a twin t78 supra. t66 t78 t88 all seam pretty cheap as turbos on there own. supra store advertize a t66 turbo for something like $1000 just curious as ever Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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