Project HHO

[David P]

I have started this thread to keep the HHO installation from becoming confused into the Supracharger Project.

 

The long awaited DC-Hybrids Dual S HHO kit will be arriving on monday, so will begin fitting this as and when the weather lets me.

 

[Crouch]

sorry mate realy new to this so i'll put it simply! what the hell is that??

[Tricky-Ricky]

Hydrostatic HHO Generator, in simple terms, producing small amounts of Hydrogen gas from water useing a small electric current, said to increase fuel economy when used with lean burn engines, but i have my doubts, have a read on the net, some say it can work, some say the kits are nothing but a scam, i have yet to come across any hard evidence as yet.

[kingaby]

Hydrostatic HHO Generator, in simple terms, producing small amounts of Hydrogen gas from water useing a small electric current, said to increase fuel economy when used with lean burn engines, but i have my doubts, have a read on the net, some say it can work, some say the kits are nothing but a scam, i have yet to come across any hard evidence as yet.

 

Do you think it could make a difference even if its minimal

[Tricky-Ricky]

Do you think it could make a difference even if its minimal

 

I am not convinced that any of the commercially available reactor kits, or even home made one can produce enough hydrogen/Oxygen to make any real difference, the idea is that with the addition of the HHO mix to the combustion mix gives a quicker burn, making for better combustion. cooler burn, and the results being slightly better MPG, slight increase in power, and cleaner emission's, and if you go the whole hog, you can up the compression ratio.

 

But in order to actually take any advantage of this, you would need to be able to map for it, in the same vain that you would to take advantage of adding 100% Methanol, or Nitrous oxide, and so pointless unless you can adapt the combustion process to suit,

I don't know exactly how the oxygen sensor can be compensated for to also take advantage of the different burn, as if the addition can change emission's, then it will have an effect on the O2 sensor feedback to the ECU, so another reason for tailored engine management,

and so making the use of this totally pointless for a std engine/car.

[David P]

I have read my share too, and decided to fit one and find out for myself.

 

I am quite capable of pissing on my own bonfire thank you.

Edited November 27, 2010 by David P (see edit history)

[Tricky-Ricky]

I have read my share too, and decided to fit one and find out for myself.

 

I am quite capable of pissing on my own bonfire thank you.

 

I wasn't "pissing on your bonfire" mealy passing on what i have gleaned about the subject and my opinion, to the people that asked what it was and how and if it worked,

Don't forget this is a discussion forum, and so should thrive on lots of varied opinions,

 

By the way i am watching your supercharger build with interest, and its looking good, and i believe it will give you some nice gains in all the right places.

[David P]

Tricky,

 

My comment was not aimed at you, just a general statement.

 

I have explained this is a project (to be approved) thread.

 

I thought this pioneering combustion engine fueling technology, may be of fascination to fellow motoring enthusiasts,

and trying to avoid another negative start to a project.

 

I have looked at your comments, and to answer them as if questions may be a way forwards.

 

The kit is claimed to produce up to 6 litres of HHO per minute, and up to around 50% fuel savings.

 

I am very interested in the "slightly better MPG, slight increase in power, and cleaner emission's", woud like very much "the HHO mix to the combustion mix gives a quicker burn, making for better combustion. cooler burn" and "if you go the whole hog".

 

I can fit an Eaton M112 supercharger and chargecooler, with water/meth injection 50/50 @ 15% fuel parallel.

The w/m injection, HHO and engine management with AEM ECU 30-1100, wideband O2 sensor and EGT.

 

It must be half-way to a Flux Capacitor

 

Thank you for the compliments re. S.C.

Edited November 27, 2010 by David P (see edit history)

[Tricky-Ricky]

"It must be half way to a Flux Capacitor":rlol:

The bit i have a problem with is the mapping for its inclusion, and especially using water/meth injection too, its a hell of a mix for any ECU to deal with, and as a wide-band can only be calibrated to one type of fuel at a time, i think the feedback will be er difficult to say the least.

 

Cant i ask just how and where your kits output is actually introduced into the combustion process?

Edited November 27, 2010 by Tricky-Ricky (see edit history)

[evinX]

I like davids projects, ive seen the things your doing to this na, and its good, yours upto now is a one of a kind which is great, love to see supras working in different ways and looking different to, because....its still a supra!

[David P]

"It must be half way to a Flux Capacitor":rlol:

The bit i have a problem with is the mapping for its inclusion, and especially using water/met injection too, its a hell of a mix for any ECU to deal with, and as a wide-band can only be calibrated to one type of fuel at a time, i think the feedback will be er difficult to say the least.

 

Cant i ask just how and where your kits output is actually introduced into the combustion process?

 

It's a good job I'm not prototypophobic, or we may never have had the opportunity to find the answer to most of these questions.

 

I plan to feed the gas before the throttle butterfly in both N/A and supercharger builds.

The mapping will be left to a man that can.

The remainder I will learn along the way.

Edited November 27, 2010 by David P (see edit history)

[Tricky-Ricky]

Will be looking forward to seeing the progress with this, don't get me wrong i admire the way you dive into a challenging project, reminds me of me a few years ago, before i kind of lost real interest, and got lazy, maybe i just need something to inspire me,

Oh! and some money LOL!

[Scott]

Looking to improve on the 40 odd MPG you already enjoy then?

[CJ]

Looking to improve on the 40 odd MPG you already enjoy then?

 

[David P]

I don't suppose a 500 ftlb 500 bhp 50 mpg supercharged charge-cooled w/m injected Supra would be of much interest anyway

Edited November 27, 2010 by David P (see edit history)

[ShamelessTT]

This reminds me of those BS things that clip on your fuel line to save you fuel.......im dubious having read many confusing / conflicting debates about this online.

 

Free power for everyone, good bye to the petrol stations, hello to water butts in the garage........woohooo! If the savings were actually worth doing, dont you think companies like toyota and honda would be on to this instead of there hybrid engine / motor systems?

 

Its interesting never the less, so ill subscribe to this thread for the outcomes!. Are these kits expensive?

Edited November 27, 2010 by ShamelessTT (see edit history)

[David P]

This reminds me of those BS things that clip on your fuel line to save you fuel.......im dubious having read many confusing / conflicting debates about this online.

 

Free power for everyone, good bye to the petrol stations, hello to water butts in the garage........woohooo! If the savings were actually worth doing, dont you think companies like toyota and honda would be on to this instead of there hybrid engine / motor systems?

 

Its interesting never the less, so ill subscribe to this thread for the outcomes!. Are these kits expensive?

 

 

"It's a good job I'm not prototypophobic, or we may never have had the opportunity to find an answer for most of these questions. "

 

 

Some of the answers, including the prices are here. http://www.dc-hybrids.com/Gas-Engine-s/57.htm

Edited November 28, 2010 by David P (see edit history)

[CJ]

Interesting project and so I am subscribing too.

 

As an aside, can I ask why the OP tends to edit almost every post he makes?

[David P]

Interesting project and so I am subscribing too.

 

As an aside, can I ask why the OP tends to edit almost every post he makes?

 

 

My eyes are not so good with the little text on screen when composing my post.

After posting I always see typo's and little mistakes and they bother me, so I correct them and I sometimes add detail to help explain something.

For the first few minutes of posting my post, I am actually still composing it.

Edited November 28, 2010 by David P (see edit history)

[Thorin]

I'll be interested to see if this actually works (I too am skeptical but you never know!).

 

I do think you need to wind your neck in at times David, you had to expect people would be skeptical regarding this.

[David P]

I'll be interested to see if this actually works (I too am skeptical but you never know!).

 

I do think you need to wind your neck in at times David, you had to expect people would be skeptical regarding this.

 

My sceptism manifests as positive curiosity.

Edited November 29, 2010 by David P (see edit history)

[Whitesupraboy2]

I built one of these ages ago. I never put it on a vehicle.

 

Mine was home made and used current checks on a meter etc.... Now enough hydrogen was produced to get a pop pop pop and flame popping out the end of the tube with a match. so it does work, the thought is to use the extra energy an alternator produces anyway so your not wasting it.

 

Few reasons it doesnt work well..... you need the full kit, in the US they use adjusters to lean the map manually once they have it setup.....simialr to the 20p fuse trick sold on ebay. difference is you are leaning it but putting in a little more fuel, but none the less still leaning it out

 

also without the ability to map it properly for the car and stable production the gains are minimal, as you are putting in more fuel....but also more oxygen. Hence more power.

 

this was actually on myth busters and they did get a normal car engien to run just on hydrogen......by literally sparying it just into the intake

 

the hydrogen production is too low from the water. Good luck though, the kits are looking much more professtional nowadays so probably fine tuned for better results. so ill have a read up on what they offer.

 

I dont think its a waste of time or money, just high gains are hard to come by.

[Chris Wilson]

I always though the electrical energy needed to break down H2O to give a good flow of hydrogen was quite high? This was one of the reasons hydrogen is expensive from the likes of BOC. I personally have two issues with this, one being there's nothing like enough hydrogen being produced to give a sensible and worthwhile amount given the air flow needs of a big engine, and also that if this was so good as to give even a tenth of the gains they are talking about every car sold in the developed world would have one fitted by the manufacturers. I have to say I have my doubts it will make any difference at all except for any gains that weakening the fuel air mixture would give without the gizmo. Will watch this with interest, thanks for posting David.

[David P]

Here it is!

 

 

2 HHO 3 lpm generators

2 voltage frequency modulators

1 modulator control box and connectors

1 circulating pump

1 automatic frost guard device

2 x 1 litre tanks. (maybe not needed)

 

The manual is provided online. http://www.hybridconversions.com/hydrogen_and_hho_system_manuals_s/14.htm

 

I have a 3 litre tank and level sensor, that I want to use as the reservoir and bubbler, and not planning to include a water trap.

 

I have ommitted to purchase the MAP and O2 sensor fudging electronics, because these functions will be controlled directly by the AEM ECU.

 

According to Clarkson, all that is needed now; is to grow a beard and collect some bio degradable baling twine.

 

I will settle for some slightly warmer weather before laying around outside under the car.

I will tinker with some mountings.

I had fabricated an alloy shelf in readiness to fit, but as I feared, this will not be strong enough so I will make another.

I am getting plenty of practice with my discing art-work just lately.

 

These contraptions require constant cleanliness, regular minor maintenance, care and understanding of their fuelling, monitoring and adjustments, also annual dismantling of the 21 plate generators, cleaning, re-assembly and reinstallation.

 

How many motorists could, or would even want to have to do, or pay someone else to do that little lot?

 

I am growing a beard, just in case he is right

 

Maybe my curiosity will be a Supramythbuster.

 

I will keep posted the progress, yet admit that I still have questions of my own.

Edited November 29, 2010 by David P (see edit history)

[Whitesupraboy2]

looking forward to this mate. Although the cost of that kit when i first searched for it!!!!

 

Could buy a old banger of a 1.1 micra for the money